Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH

Tommy Jensen <Jensen.Thomas@microsoft.com> Wed, 24 July 2019 02:26 UTC

Return-Path: <Jensen.Thomas@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B841209CA for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXQLJ9odXW9i for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr780113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.78.113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1A4F120045 for <add@ietf.org>; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NQS6HmS8nFGVZWdS9vBDRbNextE8Eg/0x6zTB/esgeEbOUBeGGapIAkLn6E0Pw3kkcCse0WYeXA+1wO62nIpH/iqhSJwH7WD+11H/0Vg7JYItJtKeTAYuxXuUtr6bujFqD8fkDqEaMw40kN/gwPQOgjHh843RbdIO4yUEuAHofEACBa+8XvFVJQKjQkQby9uNf/a47BM9zeuhGngkR8SE6TaCx8IAs7NwuLedqpritHF60gGS2Pt/02I2nI3aE+raFNw5vCcOVlZCsT8xKSHsqSNAiDdwHwJTwW+ES/O4S5163yKcP6MDpOUjVeLCV3WqPHQO6R5w6dMn1MwT0SQ1A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4wCEFIO5SXUptCWNsIqX+O9FBddtpQAicoVvv342uxg=; b=GnmMv+hwm5NWJaARmn3bjpnrCR6gf5ufaG8J6ZYwMp4y9pqfO4WXpjOJ0OPlVW14gVMNDim2uQfN0Cd1Vcswf//uXy2cxgj1Qr/fdIH/pm0TF10OIr4JDcdRk8ME+p9DCaJDXax1iEh9kXjhl7yWLGdaeca/DNcruUPFl2gO7Mh5KIJgJnkaGkqDSzT6/rT+xixa6aNi5TCfd6tXZ0JvnuozyxInpZoAxK2M0tLGgzlifgyuF4Ln+hEb+ulnW0aCCmDhbcurvyKGc05UdYmRw46+rRqKkIGRoIquaUoua4nBeB+CTkxvQwKcb/jQTbiuae+LP/3KGisl35spKkquAg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=microsoft.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=microsoft.com;dkim=pass header.d=microsoft.com;arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4wCEFIO5SXUptCWNsIqX+O9FBddtpQAicoVvv342uxg=; b=F5985LuedSGT9ni5JUgGKaQRlpo0GhRd7ujiTSXy9emkHJvV5MBrldjqwNheAs5s6yTdcMf2vDhzDoX5TBU1S9cMVcqFv3XEh6NN6wBTHGwtLK79xqlM0W2m4R0roB8WqykLh1/BJ+03YuS2vsKUdKxwgHTpvEe/+yN6cqf/ndc=
Received: from MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (20.179.20.141) by MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (20.179.20.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2136.0; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:26:03 +0000
Received: from MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24eb:3b4c:428b:8fde]) by MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24eb:3b4c:428b:8fde%9]) with mapi id 15.20.2136.000; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:26:03 +0000
From: Tommy Jensen <Jensen.Thomas@microsoft.com>
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com>, "add@ietf.org" <add@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH
Thread-Index: AQHVQcJHSskpE/E+406M/yFgYvUHuKbZBa+AgAACZgCAAADiAIAAANO0
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:26:03 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR21MB12134C6B57220E1B8BF5C811FAC60@MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAChr6Sx9TEt6CMzRRrdb-HwT_k987oW=4yF1FCbDF17zkaE2Vg@mail.gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E23910C@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <14DF8769-A817-4C06-9140-80198518244F@akamai.com> <CAChr6SzH1EycAr5n+dK5BQcG=0Zsw66qE=8Rptvq7SEoEvQQ=Q@mail.gmail.com> <E5A0DAE2-A718-41EA-B490-58ABD0F31CF2@rfc1035.com> <CAChr6SzvUZS4Ru_SttiZgWtjwBuLrzc_fdewq9w-Ts+Rq_oNHw@mail.gmail.com> <9E8BD2C4-D750-4B8C-BA34-AC4425F2951D@gmail.com>, <CAChr6Szo+1x6BnU2XH2A0o7CTQrQhFVPYezR7KQVLw-nWToULg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6Szo+1x6BnU2XH2A0o7CTQrQhFVPYezR7KQVLw-nWToULg@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Jensen.Thomas@microsoft.com;
x-originating-ip: [2601:600:a080:7f23:98f1:e7df:6daf:10a8]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 67115f2b-5a8e-4274-ecc1-08d70fde4650
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4618075)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:MN2PR21MB1213;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR21MB1213:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MN2PR21MB1213214B9FC5D5BCAB9AFF9EFAC60@MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273;
x-forefront-prvs: 0108A997B2
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(4636009)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(366004)(396003)(136003)(189003)(199004)(4744005)(2906002)(256004)(14444005)(486006)(71190400001)(71200400001)(229853002)(10090500001)(7696005)(76176011)(186003)(99286004)(53546011)(6506007)(102836004)(54906003)(110136005)(22452003)(316002)(7736002)(74316002)(476003)(33656002)(8990500004)(8676002)(11346002)(46003)(6116002)(53936002)(478600001)(4326008)(6246003)(6436002)(54896002)(55016002)(86362001)(25786009)(68736007)(236005)(9686003)(10290500003)(66476007)(8936002)(14454004)(52536014)(66446008)(64756008)(66946007)(76116006)(66556008)(81156014)(5660300002)(81166006)(446003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MN2PR21MB1213; H:MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: AZIo7IkiD5rwQKL5vj+I6upsGfcliB5brsu4xUZhPUxNqsutzZSd8SkvzHPLvjape0V6s6gl87YcMvpbj0oI8jq2pw1tsPWepQgd6W/aVcVrWN0R0dejmSUE337TTu2w2CY86A7MXmrrltxhRGStxq9s/wMR01wcqFRAKGaEbNCbAnZ3tnuqWZW+pZzRWvYJo0Ff7ZXN5trU+89hSYBAimy+5j5sksEla0ejqqqsgT1EApX3hyg4Hb/BsO4SRpeBPMeG6kKdYpibfouq8qefh0kwKLHElrA3N84tNHuYIHsCV3BPVQ6rJMNteeT8rgfDilVlINRY31ByOjrhlR3z/nwAHnXKHZGx2OdSiRe1kh34gtn1oIMQ9Bu3R4ZWUogY1p2D6pDx7VMzCjGzYstnjiF2+oEAFfghGoVOYy+dfn4=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MN2PR21MB12134C6B57220E1B8BF5C811FAC60MN2PR21MB1213namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 67115f2b-5a8e-4274-ecc1-08d70fde4650
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jul 2019 02:26:03.1120 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: tojens@microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR21MB1213
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/SQcFXuQDIkDX5mPdcFtkCez2aLE>
Subject: Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:26:08 -0000

> Are people selling DNS logs to ad tech companies? Is that the ecosystem being disrupted?

Given how many valid points have been brought up in the last few weeks about the drawbacks of centralized app-configured DNS, I don’t think the glib tone is constructive.

Thanks,
Tommy
________________________________
From: Add <add-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 7:19:38 PM
To: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com>; add@ietf.org <add@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:16 PM Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:jordan.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well to use the argument that others have used, why not just use VPN in your coffee shop?

It's a fair point. It seems like this isn't really about security.

Are people selling DNS logs to ad tech companies? Is that the ecosystem being disrupted?

thanks,
Rob