Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Thu, 25 July 2019 14:29 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C048E12014E for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FH7Ly-8DuAyc for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 083AC1200F4 for <add@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id 62so29814592lfa.8 for <add@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AunX3UxeTlCcJBAidKB8KQdiNgy15iokkT27Cmtn5ks=; b=rkxjKnfqJOPoAUc/3GkN8jHWUMCMm7M+kOZlLPpsMqdZP7U8WomKlwJQwrCsVAyNP5 HUbQhdZYqF4AHmv9gzU/kYox1nSz2tUOT/LWhp2TsH/7sgxlo1pkxGRbFdFf2CfrVBdV 9m+CjtzfKYc35kkBrj6PzjbzvErlWAfnl2AcbHhxLLw1K751yn5IgylGVAVQTnAxa45f YMfEHhTfWL53xdqqnAWsf4iior7421NAdmRkpvkE4YBQjGgSCWcvhd88vc6rnvd3pLwf Y9NE94PoiFnNNo+C6ugGVI+pCTHF9fAmn9N4kmtKP1XcpmJrn0ADyk2nRBySN54Y3tWw yiLQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AunX3UxeTlCcJBAidKB8KQdiNgy15iokkT27Cmtn5ks=; b=CEYV7VNX3QSq0OtKNwfFEEh3ET03D5wr84upof5WY/UqFchymIFQ/4fO039Lq3VVWg mb2AFFnwVlC+Fljbxsbq6ihBIzaTZXf12jd/z32RMnSPMWhbDbTzOcjkKWZAyG3NeVJ8 z6h1ZW+Aw/GR2IhsINBA/A9fhlT1jBJb7vKDdzWHe9G2z4QFEy6Z9BsWzNpzLAPK21rw J1t6rMb7uyyyf4e5CiWWcBXRxKxIEvCYcfUKZA66aiXrkDchzgu07yiV315wKURdIUqC npXY09Q5nXumhp48RLH9H+KrCNcGQeJa9L6t1+eowVpgIq5PG8MHn9EhsY3vgTT1W5g9 e7qQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWu0qtqn2iMzF5jNoQp4pyka9QaIvd8GxHIX8eieXjLB8ef1o0a 3LFHzpzx9XsXQecMuY2LSyBnWrWHC8hS114Bzs7Z2g==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxGSJj/x1aAR3PVJ6ApTx9p61RE7DmT4Iz8UioS9tyX9GZFlPVnkx2XEw0DTlGFOU31NwhYj3uMvNmg7SYqu3E=
X-Received: by 2002:ac2:51a3:: with SMTP id f3mr13539764lfk.94.1564064983256; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:43 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6Sx9TEt6CMzRRrdb-HwT_k987oW=4yF1FCbDF17zkaE2Vg@mail.gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E23910C@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <14DF8769-A817-4C06-9140-80198518244F@akamai.com> <CAChr6SzH1EycAr5n+dK5BQcG=0Zsw66qE=8Rptvq7SEoEvQQ=Q@mail.gmail.com> <E5A0DAE2-A718-41EA-B490-58ABD0F31CF2@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBMqvZivS_Hk_2mSOAOnM+mHy1mtcwnHVFc14v_jdkgU=Q@mail.gmail.com> <1EFB37A3-23C6-44FF-B001-8F04B381EC04@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBPB2Bb8RCigDt+tJ5Lz3KQQnPAVVkrF+fDUiTFJcw=eVw@mail.gmail.com> <D3359CC8-80B4-4443-B3B1-F2AD80C94DA6@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBOZiu_=VfWJDY_9V86TiGpsuZRKMCiersopxD+kTBBUtA@mail.gmail.com> <20190725142135.0FFA715BD17B@fafnir.remote.dragon.net>
In-Reply-To: <20190725142135.0FFA715BD17B@fafnir.remote.dragon.net>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:29:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBPO-hi=z-fB1toOCBRTUF+krndCZqPHS=Jrev1tTtY6XQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paul Ebersman <list-add@dragon.net>
Cc: ADD Mailing list <add@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bba2d8058e824102"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/IdZj62CyF8o7v8ze2AnBxS6vB0U>
Subject: Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:29:47 -0000

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 7:21 AM Paul Ebersman <list-add@dragon.net> wrote:

>
> jreid> Not really. A validation failure is a fairly strong indication
> jreid> that the resolver is lying to you.
>
> ekr> Not really, no. Our current belief is that there is going to be
> ekr> quite a high rate of non-malicious validation failures.
>
> What's the basis of this belief?
>
> When I was at comcast, query volumes on recursive were on order 500
> billion q/day and hard/persistant DNSSEC failures were on order of
> dozens per month, so that seems like a pretty high success rate.
>

See my previous message. This is about middleboxes interfering with the DNS
queries, which would not be visible to you from the vantage point of
comcast's recursive resolver.

-Ekr