Re: [Add] meeting hum: should the IETF take up this work?

["Diego R. Lopez" <[e-mail]>]

On 31/07/2019, 17:55, "Eric Rescorla" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 8:25 AM Diego R. Lopez <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
On 31/07/2019, 16:25, "Add on behalf of Eric Rescorla" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> on behalf of [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 2:49 PM Livingood, Jason <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
On 7/25/19, 10:12 AM, "Add on behalf of Adam Roach" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> on behalf of [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> You can see, for example, Cloudflare's associated privacy
    policy at https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/

[JL] This speaks to the DNS query/response. But with DoH, this is contained inside of an HTTP envelope, so to speak, which has much more rich tracking - noted at https://www.cloudflare.com/privacypolicy/ under website visitors (which I presume applies to all HTTP transactions).
No, this is not our understanding. Rather, the privacy policy for DoH covers every aspect of DoH, including the HTTP portion. The Cloudflare Privacy Policy is a separate policy for CF websites and does not govern the resolver.
So the confluence of DNS and HTTP here seems interesting to better understand and document as TRR-style policies evolve. Since there is an HTTP server involved in DoH, presumably all the normal HTTP log items are seen & processed and can be logged, like user agent, cookies, and so on.
Firefox doesn't send cookies for DoH. We do send User-Agent, and we could look at removing that, but given TLS ClientHello fingerprinting, that's probably not adding a huge amount of additional information.
-Ekr
This implies the combination Firefox/Cloudflare does not pose a significant privacy risk. Fair enough. But the general case of whatever-the-app using a hardwired DOH resolver remains, much the same as the archetypal coffeeshop resolver compared to well-behaved, contract-bounded ISPs.
This seems to be assuming a number of facts about how ISPs behave that are not in evidence.

-Ekr

I was not making any assumption on concrete behaviors (and far be it from me to start another semi-religious discussion on the behavior and/or motivations of different actors), just pointing that we must consider behaviors in all cases, including apps and devices in general, the same way we consider all kinds of access providers.

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr2lopez/

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