Re: [Add] ADD Calls for WF Adoption

Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com> Tue, 02 November 2021 14:56 UTC

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From: Daniel Migault <mglt.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 10:56:06 -0400
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To: "Vinny Parla (vparla)" <vparla=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Geoff Huston <gih903@gmail.com>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, "add@ietf.org" <add@ietf.org>, "Deen, Glenn" <Glenn_Deen=40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Add] ADD Calls for WF Adoption
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I support -deployment-considerations adoption so guidance be provided
regarding the deployment and usage of anr/ddr for internet providers.
Similarly, I -enterprise-split-dns addresses a common scenario and
discussions/clarification for a scenario will be welcome. As such I also
support the adoption of the document.

Yours,
Daniel


On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 9:32 AM Vinny Parla (vparla) <vparla=
40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> I think there are a number of Enterprise use cases, including VPN/RA
> scenarios, that are driven by domain-based split-tunnel policies not IP
> policies, that could potentially benefit from this proposal.
>
> I have not seen any other proposals that help in this area.
>
> -Vinny
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Add <add-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2021 4:22 PM
> To: Geoff Huston <gih903@gmail.com>
> Cc: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>om>; add@ietf.org; Deen, Glenn <Glenn_Deen=
> 40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Add] ADD Calls for WF Adoption
>
>
>
> > On Oct 31, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Geoff Huston <gih903@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > So here we are in a call as to whether documents should be discussed by
> the WG and we are doing just that. Seems to me that the adoption question
> is already answered.
> >
> > No, I do not believe that WG adoption means that the document describes
> a good idea nor one that is going to lead to some published document(s). It
> means that a bunch of folk want to talk about it and discuss their various
> interpretations of the concepts exposed in the document(s). It may lead
> somewhere. Or it may be a set of terrible ideas and lead nowhere. And
> that’s fine. WG Adoption is not an endorsement of the concepts, nor should
> it ever be.
> >
> > I support DISCUSSING these draft. I don’t necessarily agree with the
> draft, nor can I (or anyone else for that matter) claim that the WG
> “supports” these drafts until the WG discusses them. I don’t support
> peremptorily stopping discussion of these drafts by not adopting these
> document. It appears that they are in scope for the WG’s area of study, and
> I that’s a reasonable position to support adoption by the WG group.
>
> On the case of the split-DNS document, I think the main crux of the issue
> is how a network establishes ownership over a domain in a way that clients
> can trust, and should trust more than other alternatives. That might be
> something that’s in scope if we discuss it, but I’m seriously wondering if
> that is a bigger problem that needs a more general mechanism that just
> what’s used for bootstrapping an encrypted resolver (the topic of ADD). I
> think having these private-scoped PvDs is quite interesting, but given that
> a lot of work was done for PvDs elsewhere (like in intarea), it may be that
> this mechanism mainly belongs in another group or a new group entirely.
> That’s the kind of discussion that’s useful to have prior to adoption.
>
> Thanks,
> Tommy
> >
> > regards,
> >
> >   Geoff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 29 Oct 2021, at 3:11 pm, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Glenn,
> >>
> >> Let me start by saying that I don't agree with a number of your
> >> assertions here, in particular about the requirements for adoption.
> >> While it's not *simply* a matter of numbers, having a reasonable
> >> level of support is in fact necessary for consensus.
> >>
> >> However, before we debate those, let's start by getting to common
> >> facts. I believe Tommy wrote you with concerns about both drafts, but
> >> let's start with draft-boucadair-add-deployment-considerations.
> >>
> >> I have provided you with a list of the people expressing each
> >> position. Your message lists Jim Reid and Diego Lopez.  I am unable
> >> to find a message indicating support for this draft from Diego though
> >> did find one from Jim Reid. However, in that search I also find a
> >> message somewhat opposing adoption from Martin Thomson (I belive he
> >> is opposed so I'm sure I can arrange for a more direct message if you
> like).
> >>
> >> So, can you please provide links to the messages from people who are
> >> in support of this draft?
> >>
> >> -Ekr
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 8:57 AM Deen, Glenn <Glenn_Deen=
> 40comcast.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> >> Hi ADD,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I wanted to bring to the ADD Group’s attention that 2 documents have
> entered into CALL for WG Adoption in the last couple of days:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    • Draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-add-enterprise-split-dns/
> >>
> >>
> >>    • Draft-boucadair-add-deployment-considerations
> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-add-deployment-consi
> >> derations/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Both drafts are material that has had good discussion both on list and
> during past ADD meetings so please consult the archive and meeting minutes,
> especially IETF110 and IETF111 if you need additional background.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Both are in a 2 week call for adoption, with the first ending on Oct
> 26,2021 and the second on Oct 27,2021.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please respond on list with comments on these calls.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Glenn
> >>
> >> --
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-- 
Daniel Migault
Ericsson