IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Add] [Ext] antitrust implications of IETF resolver discovery protocol work

"Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com> Tue, 24 March 2020 02:44 UTC

Return-Path: <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD71F3A0FAC for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:44:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.888
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nbcuni.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XvQ1rYn8SC3s for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com (mx0a-00176a04.pphosted.com [67.231.149.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FCEE3A0FB3 for <Add@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 19:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0047965.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0047965.ppops.net-00176a04. (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 02O2hBb4031716 for <Add@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:44:05 -0400
Received: from usushmgip001.mail.tfayd.com ([216.178.109.235]) by m0047965.ppops.net-00176a04. with ESMTP id 2ywfjwyuh7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for <Add@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:44:04 -0400
Received: from unknown (HELO ashemwp00004.mail.tfayd.com) ([100.126.24.28]) by usushmgip001.mail.tfayd.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA256; 23 Mar 2020 19:44:03 -0700
Received: from ashemwp00004.mail.tfayd.com (100.126.24.28) by ashemwp00004.mail.tfayd.com (100.126.24.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.669.32; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:44:01 -0400
Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.40.78.204) by ashemwp00004.mail.tfayd.com (100.126.24.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.669.32 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 22:44:01 -0400
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nt9l7vQFdBlh3DRdIqiecDqQSC2dP2fx7BUE6X5L2JjDNU2fjF/iJe9RCtJoxwnl+99UCV58lUyEMO/iiId89mRKQox4AgrdR3c399XZkVIBdW3Y7eISsV/e9MQcP3Z1azVOrJT+cG2hI2Jz8UdteYHvkPYBlTrI+Sh2/HUr0abEKu1uqSWZ3zbYIz+Uwc6jq2zhujKJr+FbvB4OT8FE7Oja9DC+yah70rMhEO5AQ6FXk/clh7FKJrAIqc4FhEWFZcr3RTfBz06sk5UMrioSVyra1JnFWa3IzgADW7XNRd+8hmzwlaFLrxw6YhqdXu4BQf99uEQDI69OxN5Rgy2qog==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xdqqXUsViQvHH4xjb9rz45+TCb734c/2QRWpGm1GQQ4=; b=YTRJFWbM5kugg2GFBFisRfnFRRYvsJOoYYYbcqkZF/r7jLyDoa870A7gg2YnYpBD07OU1DwcC1yXFY3+w3uybanhySt+PGs4oeew2rP0DRnTSljSf6qqB9DOIFn5AZg3nOden2dLusREhpkjN4YfqQMvCLmulRbiq4vNnozCtFyuFoPdYQJXfizkdREaiqYhY7LOVB2bk+iNBh56qT9b2hJnfS2yWC4MIvXdeWcqkQEz5l5LHJ7RVrG9cUYFrZXVz0G7iiQKXbrMbJWhf8Xj1iGhEgO8ImshXwKvqH9FUTUqgqfi87I0PaQeCSR04e2w3b0NYMXOtsgsXm/WEUV4nA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nbcuni.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nbcuni.com; dkim=pass header.d=nbcuni.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=NBCUNI.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-NBCUNI-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xdqqXUsViQvHH4xjb9rz45+TCb734c/2QRWpGm1GQQ4=; b=x9HZUwPqQH40mwWSCIpl2dRhbXS9iojAJ79laqbz2/1YbZB2J3RER5ogGRtbQSxKztNbI1YKSl+qI6xctkLYxSK9Wd7vwtDAMJgyNzriwrBLPevGrttRd7k/6NNli+IEfiXTQF3S2CWBt5HjZajJeXfmeO+N8dJgSJkCm7L3XD0=
Received: from BYAPR14MB3094.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:14d::30) by BYAPR14MB3047.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:156::24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2835.22; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 02:44:00 +0000
Received: from BYAPR14MB3094.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::78b8:aa9c:30a8:44af]) by BYAPR14MB3094.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::78b8:aa9c:30a8:44af%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2835.021; Tue, 24 Mar 2020 02:44:00 +0000
From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <Glenn.Deen@nbcuni.com>
To: Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
CC: "Add@ietf.org" <Add@ietf.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org>, Robert Kahn <rkahn@cnri.reston.va.us>
Thread-Topic: [Add] [Ext] antitrust implications of IETF resolver discovery protocol work
Thread-Index: AQHWAYYSviWiIhAIiE+MshC7E/uQiA==
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 02:44:00 +0000
Message-ID: <A22F29EB-10D0-4636-B5C7-A88378E0A3CE@nbcuni.com>
References: <5c9880d8-d03c-d28f-08b8-5f704270ed56@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <5c9880d8-d03c-d28f-08b8-5f704270ed56@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [2605:e000:141b:121:68f4:eec5:a0e0:81ae]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0d78fc22-5d5b-4aab-4231-08d7cf9d3513
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR14MB3047:
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BYAPR14MB30473EAB5B348D2B70956302E2F10@BYAPR14MB3047.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-forefront-prvs: 03524FBD26
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(4636009)(136003)(346002)(396003)(366004)(376002)(39860400002)(316002)(6486002)(53546011)(6506007)(36756003)(71200400001)(33656002)(186003)(54906003)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(76116006)(66446008)(64756008)(86362001)(478600001)(5660300002)(8676002)(6512007)(2616005)(8936002)(81166006)(966005)(2906002)(81156014)(4326008)(6916009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR14MB3047; H:BYAPR14MB3094.namprd14.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nbcuni.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: t4I7J5Z7BHriYLUoU+IKunCDAh3NdYwumYpavhlbMyf6/36FsNbRYWj81SvYyoh+XjFYyX0Zae77HtUB9ssgIRrPvHrhSL+QsyGTzotsFmLCs5PPNDt4gDWtlMSbd4jgmWzeHhsC4briiBvv+f3ZYxAeExGMHi4H6GrxIz2qUx2WAyc9/mCeALmSM8UEQnl5EHmgm3i/2TwtxVcPZovYjg==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A22F29EB10D04636B5C7A88378E0A3CEnbcunicom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0d78fc22-5d5b-4aab-4231-08d7cf9d3513
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2020 02:44:00.2364 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4f3526f9-97d6-412d-933a-4e30a73110f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: evESNNs2wH24p7we8f5rw7e24UohHJ6aaSLiN/AsWX14E3ZT6vBKae+3CdG5T5GeX6OgMm8eg1yEEd9mz3vduA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR14MB3047
X-OriginatorOrg: nbcuni.com
X-EXCLAIMER-MD-CONFIG: 47edc00f-f2d6-45ef-be83-8a353bd47e45
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.645 definitions=2020-03-23_10:2020-03-23, 2020-03-23 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 bulkscore=0 impostorscore=0 suspectscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=999 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2003240012
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/Wb5gVDYvyKlZReM9YhTBBH0_VQA>
Subject: Re: [Add] [Ext] antitrust implications of IETF resolver discovery protocol work
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2020 02:44:12 -0000

What anti trust aspects are being suggested for discovery of dns resolvers and mechanisms to convey resolver information ?

I don’t see what the possible concerns are.

Glenn

On Mar 23, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi Paul,

Indeed they have.  That's the point, they are similar.  Bob can speak as to the similarities and why The Handle System might be better here, or a competitive alternative.

This kind of work in the past has usually had some kind of governmental/intergovernmental aegis for antitrust protection.  Here, it appears there is arguably significant potential exposure.  Just suggesting an antitrust analysis is appropriate, as well as some care as to the anti competitive effects.

--tony

Re: [Add] [Ext] antitrust implications of IETF resolver discovery protocol work

Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org><mailto:paul.hoffman@icann.org> Tue, 24 March 2020 00:22 UTCShow header<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/?*__;Iw!!PIZeeW5wscynRQ!_HUNDgFB3bmkeXmbENuu3y4At1eJFinGmXaQq9D2UCwPZ5qaAzd2j8cGJ1Hw2HGK$>

On Mar 23, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com><mailto:&lt;rutkowski.tony@gmail.com&gt;> wrote:
>
> Has anyone done an analysis of the antitrust implications of this work under an IETF aegis?  Has the IETF Trust bought off on this?

Not that has reported to this group.

> The work here is similar that undertaken for The Handle System, and the CNRI work in ITU to develop X.1255 and related treaty instrument resolutions.

In what way is it "similar"? Various ways of doing discovery have been done for over 30 years.

--Paul Hoffman


--
Add mailing list
Add@ietf.org
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add__;!!PIZeeW5wscynRQ!_HUNDgFB3bmkeXmbENuu3y4At1eJFinGmXaQq9D2UCwPZ5qaAzd2j8cGJzy8cE6v$

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email