Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Thu, 25 July 2019 15:07 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087D3120261 for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMC44t-FzLnx for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:07:56 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [176.58.120.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCAB112009C for <add@ietf.org>; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 08:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dooku.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:6e88:14ff:fe34:93bc]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2CC81F44B; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:07:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by dooku.sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id A06BC1D76; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:08:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>, add@ietf.org
In-reply-to: <alpine.LRH.2.21.1907251052060.23797@bofh.nohats.ca>
References: <CAChr6Sx9TEt6CMzRRrdb-HwT_k987oW=4yF1FCbDF17zkaE2Vg@mail.gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E23910C@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <14DF8769-A817-4C06-9140-80198518244F@akamai.com> <CAChr6SzH1EycAr5n+dK5BQcG=0Zsw66qE=8Rptvq7SEoEvQQ=Q@mail.gmail.com> <E5A0DAE2-A718-41EA-B490-58ABD0F31CF2@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBMqvZivS_Hk_2mSOAOnM+mHy1mtcwnHVFc14v_jdkgU=Q@mail.gmail.com> <1EFB37A3-23C6-44FF-B001-8F04B381EC04@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBPB2Bb8RCigDt+tJ5Lz3KQQnPAVVkrF+fDUiTFJcw=eVw@mail.gmail.com> <D3359CC8-80B4-4443-B3B1-F2AD80C94DA6@rfc1035.com> <CABcZeBOZiu_=VfWJDY_9V86TiGpsuZRKMCiersopxD+kTBBUtA@mail.gmail.com> <20190725142135.0FFA715BD17B@fafnir.remote.dragon.net> <CABcZeBPO-hi=z-fB1toOCBRTUF+krndCZqPHS=Jrev1tTtY6XQ@mail.gmail.com> <20190725144039.0A57D15BD9C7@fafnir.remote.dragon.net> <CABcZeBOXNMm9eYU=uyqo8eAGNnr5t91-E-ydO7NsBEoep6w5nQ@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LRH.2.21.1907251052060.23797@bofh.nohats.ca>
Comments: In-reply-to Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> message dated "Thu, 25 Jul 2019 10:59:55 -0400."
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.5.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 11:08:15 -0400
Message-ID: <16891.1564067295@dooku.sandelman.ca>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/d5nqHgYsYai4qfASi1shZkjR73M>
Subject: Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:07:58 -0000

Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:
    > What percentage of hijacked connections due to maliciously modified DNS 
    > is within your breakage budget? In other words, how do you balance
    > security 
    > versus user convenience? A certificate that has expired only two hours
    > ago seem to be fine to hard fail on. But a broken DNS transport is not?

I agree.
I wish it was Applications Doing DNSSEC, and DNSSEC-over-HTTPS/TLS.

It seems that once it's in the Application, that doing DNSSEC intelligently
is much easier.

-- 
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [ 
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [ 
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [