Re: [Add] meeting hum: should the IETF take up this work?

[Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 8:25 AM Diego R. Lopez <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> On 31/07/2019, 16:25, "Add on behalf of Eric Rescorla" <
> [e-mail] on behalf of [e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 2:49 PM Livingood, Jason <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
> On 7/25/19, 10:12 AM, "Add on behalf of Adam Roach" <[e-mail]
> on behalf of [e-mail]> wrote:
> > You can see, for example, Cloudflare's associated privacy
>     policy at
> https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/commitment-to-privacy/privacy-policy/firefox/
>
> [JL] This speaks to the DNS query/response. But with DoH, this is
> contained inside of an HTTP envelope, so to speak, which has much more rich
> tracking - noted at https://www.cloudflare.com/privacypolicy/ under
> website visitors (which I presume applies to all HTTP transactions).
>
>
>
> No, this is not our understanding. Rather, the privacy policy for DoH
> covers every aspect of DoH, including the HTTP portion. The Cloudflare
> Privacy Policy is a separate policy for CF websites and does not govern the
> resolver.
>
>
>
>
>
> So the confluence of DNS and HTTP here seems interesting to better
> understand and document as TRR-style policies evolve. Since there is an
> HTTP server involved in DoH, presumably all the normal HTTP log items are
> seen & processed and can be logged, like user agent, cookies, and so on.
>
>
>
> Firefox doesn't send cookies for DoH. We do send User-Agent, and we could
> look at removing that, but given TLS ClientHello fingerprinting, that's
> probably not adding a huge amount of additional information.
>
>
>
> -Ekr
>
>
>
> This implies the combination Firefox/Cloudflare does not pose a
> significant privacy risk. Fair enough. But the general case of
> whatever-the-app using a hardwired DOH resolver remains, much the same as
> the archetypal coffeeshop resolver compared to well-behaved,
> contract-bounded ISPs.
>

This seems to be assuming a number of facts about how ISPs behave that are
not in evidence.

-Ekr


>
> --
>
> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"
>
>
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
> Telefonica I+D
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr2lopez/
>
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>
> e-mail: [e-mail]
>
> Tel:         [phone]
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> ----------------------------------
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>
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>
>
>
> [JL] In addition, I suspect a concern (for the very high scale centralised
> DoH platforms) is not just the per-user privacy policy but also what
> aggregated business intelligence a global scale platform would be able to
> develop (e.g. of a population of 500M users, how many have queried for *.
> netflix.com in the past N hours, by country, ASN, user agent, etc.),
> relative to competitors or potential competitors. So I suspect these
> concerns may arise, at least for platforms of very high scale /
> penetration.
>
> --
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