Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH

Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org> Wed, 24 July 2019 10:19 UTC

Return-Path: <jhall@cdt.org>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACACA12013E for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:19:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cdt.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mmKhppswwJ7n for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9284E120139 for <add@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id e20so58044821iob.9 for <add@ietf.org>; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cdt.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5k66BQr+2qUf93hsZrmWsW7VO0mpCv1aymTRqFLmzME=; b=d3UK+TcVSe1ximzPghyoeP/PWSZB2pEp40gobyY8+660eHZjPaaRBbIgO9B20StSAo LZU+9jIvsQDHfGOFNxu1vif+Cq4VGGOu6hQ8oZ0MOs6LUo1pYe+P09r0BWIpQ3suIWK6 0u8zX2dW80qr5N3uoMOAamcg05PuomWQE4UTg=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5k66BQr+2qUf93hsZrmWsW7VO0mpCv1aymTRqFLmzME=; b=mYOaQ5qhO9sUopX1LRTfBuB/7EDLRbF3M4HPy7L72Og5x30c497Ma29J190I6v5mE2 b+mCz2n7o9KA2Ipg85ZEkHEzG7J74BjMEntazMce9tDDuozUdBF5eA3mUfg0iD4FfLFV drZTHb5GuvArxMJK8LmvC1RQYqEKIC1o+r/ODYjjaMxbLyLb/E6fL5XLVm01PSDYjuWM gJGTYfBOb+8j7DLJtlHNWcjefA6kuoLKeFmBkdq21rv1Unuv0+3q92sSyTbJRlSvKG+6 zPVMUyXfxZYBnZxkfKz53YeDCH7E9ewrJ74dL0jhnfJdOXNvn3OMqz8cBa5/JHC6/gZT eh2Q==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXWvBvIsmSLiSq9qsM7xGjm+n99MmnKnbSAJadftz8d71QAc2eY RGPIXqhKY7GdEk9Zreig+Bb1DLBaQRQEoNr54WvIXA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw0USw8LpJvq0K4oGwH4SwvRm9Th7kVXhrcjiz7LJxpehUuC2OdUYM/Q3hHBAkZMJDZxWK5llg8fM+rMlbbCP8=
X-Received: by 2002:a6b:dc08:: with SMTP id s8mr29717168ioc.209.1563963559670; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 03:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAChr6Sx9TEt6CMzRRrdb-HwT_k987oW=4yF1FCbDF17zkaE2Vg@mail.gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114E23910C@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <14DF8769-A817-4C06-9140-80198518244F@akamai.com> <CAChr6SzH1EycAr5n+dK5BQcG=0Zsw66qE=8Rptvq7SEoEvQQ=Q@mail.gmail.com> <E5A0DAE2-A718-41EA-B490-58ABD0F31CF2@rfc1035.com> <CAChr6SzvUZS4Ru_SttiZgWtjwBuLrzc_fdewq9w-Ts+Rq_oNHw@mail.gmail.com> <9E8BD2C4-D750-4B8C-BA34-AC4425F2951D@gmail.com> <CAChr6Szo+1x6BnU2XH2A0o7CTQrQhFVPYezR7KQVLw-nWToULg@mail.gmail.com> <MN2PR21MB12134C6B57220E1B8BF5C811FAC60@MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR21MB12134C6B57220E1B8BF5C811FAC60@MN2PR21MB1213.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:19:09 -0400
Message-ID: <CABtrr-Ue6rAom3ubJc_tPbn37T8HPGPabzX=CxT9UmiicbUtXQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tommy Jensen <Jensen.Thomas=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Bret Jordan <jordan.ietf@gmail.com>, Jim Reid <jim@rfc1035.com>, Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, "add@ietf.org" <add@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006a8fe8058e6aa4d4"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/mJH9oUv-JVclOOlGH5A8uiEbmys>
Subject: Re: [Add] fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:19:23 -0000

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 22:26 Tommy Jensen <Jensen.Thomas=
40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> > Are people selling DNS logs to ad tech companies? Is that the ecosystem
> being disrupted?
>
> Given how many valid points have been brought up in the last few weeks
> about the drawbacks of centralized app-configured DNS, I don’t think the
> glib tone is constructive.
>

Tone aside, to some users, centralization is a benefit in that they don't
have a bunch of unknown privacy policies applying to the resolution of the
names they need. For example, the privacy policy of 1.1.1.1 is pretty
amazing from the perspective of data retention, secondary uses, etc. (e.g.,
I know my resolutions will be removed from their logs within 24 hours).

This may seem small but it seems to be lost in the centralization/choice
discussion.

> --
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org]
1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497
e: joe@cdt.org, p: 202.407.8825, pgp: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871