Re: [Add] [Ext] Draft Posting: CNAME Discovery of Local DoH Resolvers

Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> Fri, 03 July 2020 14:25 UTC

Return-Path: <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: add@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75B4B3A07E0 for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SyX00Iv2zsST for <add@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt1-x82c.google.com (mail-qt1-x82c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 166673A07F7 for <add@ietf.org>; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt1-x82c.google.com with SMTP id d27so23999258qtg.4 for <add@ietf.org>; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=kb8M6WOQA9vzlJkDvXEqCmLlNUZgYOPHiSWvP1vM2mI=; b=XuJurZv7Cqm7kR5NAf5zuRzZKEk/MQZJkIfip0b2kAW8YSV5KS6mNtmOvj10LVkZnj f6GXnKafIUEhV5hX1isIAbJvNZBuZTQhXMaFJnAGex/qGybdu5I1aQT150niR/HL5h5Z NbolYc84GujSrLkNrkyr2q0QOOx2fJg7JGO47rk7Y5N1A2b7yNbvKqjYYB6ldjfwc/3p SCjKLeHeut6ipAMGvY47rDRKJeeZcPHLebI8TX626AwOW73uwJ68gerLQ/Sq7MQMwaSb n0Qu0LBVoQj6ItkcPNx6H0Q4SQNtmAfk8Lg1767rBubf1bgdif4SzUwL9dpF9rpQidrR YyFw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=kb8M6WOQA9vzlJkDvXEqCmLlNUZgYOPHiSWvP1vM2mI=; b=NjgVeoW/sax37L3pJKjHCka5DDIRa7d59NlHLzepPhtRun72eGFnJSVKmk306VTCO8 R6KknGe0hUfEabCTe7k3Wa2NRA37pswT5Y6q7KpJcgPFlqoqOMTKN1o8DfCpVoTMwAEp 6/QJvTwHCdv46M2DhxVtVr0T0t5AaYRhy82/h1sKX3croCDHPAcUNopXVAdK5RQYPPCz 7bNrQO+lrLMYGLAZXzt/mO9QjEZ3A9AGY81oYOp+H2d8/KyzRFSeKhBlVgPhg6z1DtUL K+W2qndZ2tX4ADVQEFrv0D+uqMtr+wPR/5+oIfAq+vjg0zecowHb5DOhitVsCooLHUdv cMSA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530MUZKAUq4Q4pcIQBd2kGAKc/HPdE+Rebeg2+lgTuzsyeusllr4 zHmTfAHTNwgNA+16f6kg/hyS96uG8rg=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJykKK7KSsjwKOgj26XYHJf27AQKHf8UZe5Ilu9P04X+XaC28aoglVhJvB8DUuuHHP3fBlmrFQ==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5048:: with SMTP id h8mr35659244qtm.81.1593786346813; Fri, 03 Jul 2020 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.249] (pool-70-106-222-98.clppva.fios.verizon.net. [70.106.222.98]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k194sm10499307qke.100.2020.07.03.07.25.45 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 03 Jul 2020 07:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org>
Cc: ADD Mailing list <add@ietf.org>
References: <CABcZeBPTkWeB40wpTowKvEJ-gXA3AL2e-BE+C_FC7Js7-D0DZQ@mail.gmail.com> <10843339.pZq1X2qCAG@linux-9daj> <b67b6603-8d54-6ca6-5523-ca94286da065@gmail.com> <1648560.kg0s9LhFLv@linux-9daj> <CAChr6SzJm2Btm4tDawnef1LSkt45oaUwD40Z9HWNXkY2YbreSg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c3c2354c-4759-ae19-419b-6251a3f21936@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 10:25:46 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAChr6SzJm2Btm4tDawnef1LSkt45oaUwD40Z9HWNXkY2YbreSg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8379593025C13F260000191C"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/add/qYx6fSndNjEFMJEnEKizcNL4x4k>
Subject: Re: [Add] [Ext] Draft Posting: CNAME Discovery of Local DoH Resolvers
X-BeenThere: add@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Applications Doing DNS <add.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/add/>
List-Post: <mailto:add@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add>, <mailto:add-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 14:25:50 -0000

Hi Rob et al.,

The concern was raised on open mike at the #107 IETF Plenary. All 
standards bodies have antitrust exposure.  Most recognize that exposure 
and have explicit practices and programs dedicated to reducing it.  
Standards making by definition is an antitrust conspiracy.

The "followup" usually occurs through actions by competition authorities 
and judicial litigation.  The IETF's exposure over the years has been 
significant, but ignored and mollified by insurance coverage and a 
"fuzzied" organization, coupled with circumspect affiliations of actors, 
and non-profit devises.  As the anticompetitive behaviour has increased 
in recent years, and judging by recent actions underway, the IETF 
antitrust "free pass" is probably coming to an end, and the new IETF 
Trust LLC should be demonstrating due diligence.  Organizations, 
companies, and individual are potentially culpable.

Yes, the followup should be interesting indeed.

--tony

On 7/3/2020 1:22 AM, Rob Sayre wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 4:04 PM Paul Vixie <paul@redbarn.org 
> <mailto:paul@redbarn.org>> wrote:
>
>     On Wednesday, 1 July 2020 22:56:22 UTC Tony Rutkowski wrote:
>     > Hi Paul,
>     >
>     > Any view on a matter raised at the recent IAB session - to what
>     extent
>     > are the behaviors here anticompetitive?
>     >
>     > --amr
>
>     i am not a lawyer, but i am a lay expert on antitrust law...
>
>
> This sounds very interesting. I'd love to hear the followup on this 
> one. :)
>
> cheers,
> Rob
>