Return-Path: X-Original-To: aeon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: aeon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F20F1A01E1 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:07:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6qOT3HaoPvl for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DA0CA1A02F3 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.9]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee253d280bb766-eb775; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:07:24 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee253d280bb766-eb775 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from adminPC (unknown[31.133.166.140]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr05-12005 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee553d280b2dec-50307; Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:07:24 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee553d280b2dec-50307 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Charles Eckel \(eckelcu\)'" , References: <001a01cfa487$f1706950$d4513bf0$@chinamobile.com> <003d01cfa5b9$de59beb0$9b0d3c10$@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 00:07:10 +0800 Message-ID: <002001cfa822$82c61dd0$88525970$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01CFA865.90F089C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH5MJwWFEXg4e/MaS9sUajY/XkSowHoAVxiAYPWR9qbQoEUUA== Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/aeon/etEjMV__mErMjHqsGtEDN8z8Wfo Subject: Re: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at IETF90 X-BeenThere: aeon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Application Enabled Open Networking \(AEON\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 16:07:33 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CFA865.90F089C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Please find the following minutes of the BarBOF, feel free to comment if there is anything missing or incorrect. Thank you all for participating. AECON barBoF Logistics: Wednesday, July 23, 11:45-12:45, in Manitoba Attendance: About 30 people Overview: * Information shared among the community about AECON, the progress so far, meeting with IAB/IESG members, and feedback from that meeting * Open discussion about concerns of AECON and suggestions regarding next steps Notes taken: * Security aspects, what is needed depends on what information is communicated and the environment within which it is communicated; however, there is general agreement we need to be more concrete about how AECON addresses security * Michael mentioned similar BoF failed because of security, need to bear that in mind * It is clear that AECON could be misused by an operator; need to illustrate how AECON makes things better * Work out all the details for at least one use case, a prototype would be helpful * Beware of privacy implications, even in home network * Dad should not be able to see what kids are watching or what apps they are using * Consider ALTO to home/first hop/edge router and what could be achieved simply with AECON from application to home/first hop/edge router * Quite a few people (10+) are familiar with ALTO * Need to work on gap analysis of ALTO, consider if it is possible to extend ALTO to solve this * Need to hear from application developers how AECON helps * Ease of implementation, lowering the bar to usage, and incremental deployment are all targeted by AECON; need to engage more with application developers to validate * AECON targeted Concrete examples of what we want to do (prototype), illustrate advantages and use cases to developers * Tim Chown reminded of a similar northbound API to SDN controller, see how it can be used to describe AECON; need some experimental data, game devs considered that * Pal-Erik to work on prototype to demonstrate at or before next IETF * Possibility of carrying characteristics within data plane * It could be out-of-band or in-band, up to our discussion, one concern about in-band solution is traffic encryption * Discussion about signaling with changing traffic, probably AECON would need to send messages periodically and in response to specific events, but the rate of such updates needs to be considered * one option discussed is having application initiate all AECON signaling (e.g. network feedback in response to application signaling only), other options exist * Explore what you can do with/without signaling an application identifier * Revisit existing use cases with this in mind * Revisit discussion from DiffServ WG * Look at archives, reach out to chairs * Site page is out of date, is it useful, should we update it and continue to use it? * Yes, but definitely need to update in order for it to be helpful, right now it is confusing Best regards, Peng From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Charles Eckel (eckelcu) Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 6:34 AM To: Fan, Peng; aeon@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at IETF90 For your reference, here are the slides from the barBOF. Comments and questions are welcome. We are still working on minutes. We hope to share them by tomorrow. Cheers, Charles From: , Peng Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 at 10:33 AM To: "aeon@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at IETF90 Hi all, The Bar BoF will be held in room Manitoba on the MM floor. The time is Wednesday 11:45-12:45 Toronto local time. Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. Best regards, Peng From: Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 10:03 AM To: aeon@ietf.org Subject: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at IETF90 Hi all, We will be having the AECON Bar BOF Wednesday (23 Jul) noon during 11:45-12:45. Meeting place will be notified soon. You are all welcome to attend the discussion. Best regards, Peng ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01CFA865.90F089C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Please find the = following minutes of the BarBOF, feel free to comment if there is = anything missing or incorrect. Thank you all for = participating.

 

AECON = barBoF

 

Logistics: Wednesday, July 23, = 11:45-12:45, in Manitoba

Attendance: About 30 people =

Overview: =

  • Information = shared among the community about AECON, the progress so far, meeting = with IAB/IESG members, and feedback from that = meeting
  • Open discussion = about concerns of AECON and suggestions regarding next = steps

Notes taken: =

  • Security = aspects, what is needed depends on what information is communicated and = the environment within which it is communicated; however, there is = general agreement we need to be more concrete about how AECON = addresses security
    • Michael = mentioned similar BoF failed because of security, need to bear that in = mind
  • It is clear = that AECON could be misused by an operator; need to illustrate how AECON = makes things better
    • Work out all = the details for at least one use case, a prototype would be = helpful
  • Beware of = privacy implications, even in home network
    • Dad should not = be able to see what kids are watching or what apps they are = using
  • Consider ALTO = to home/first hop/edge router and what could be achieved simply with = AECON from application to home/first hop/edge router =
    • Quite a few = people (10+) are familiar with ALTO
    • Need to work on = gap analysis of ALTO, consider if it is possible to extend ALTO to solve = this
  • Need to hear = from application developers how AECON helps
    • Ease of = implementation, lowering the bar to usage, and incremental deployment = are all targeted by AECON; need to engage more with application = developers to validate 
    • AECON targeted = Concrete examples of what we want to do (prototype), illustrate = advantages and use cases to developers
    • Tim Chown = reminded of a similar northbound API to SDN controller, see how it can = be used to describe AECON; need some experimental data, game devs = considered that
    • Pal-Erik to = work on prototype to demonstrate at or before next = IETF
  • Possibility of = carrying characteristics within data plane
    • It could be = out-of-band or in-band, up to our discussion, one concern about in-band = solution is traffic encryption
  • Discussion = about signaling with changing traffic, probably AECON would need to send = messages periodically and in response to specific events, but the rate = of such updates needs to be considered
    • one option = discussed is having application initiate all AECON signaling (e.g. = network feedback in response to application signaling only), other = options exist
  • Explore what = you can do with/without signaling an application identifier =
    • Revisit = existing use cases with this in mind
  • Revisit = discussion from DiffServ WG
    • Look at = archives, reach out to chairs
  • Site page is = out of date, is it useful, should we update it and continue to use it? =
    • Yes, but = definitely need to update in order for it to be helpful, right now it is = confusing

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= = Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Charles Eckel = (eckelcu)
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 6:34 AM
To: = Fan, Peng; aeon@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at = IETF90

 

For your reference, here are the = slides from the barBOF. Comments and questions are = welcome.

We are still working on minutes. = We hope to share them by tomorrow.

 

=

Cheers,

Charles

 

=

From: = <Fan>, Peng <fanpeng@chinamobile.com>Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 at 10:33 AM
To: "aeon@ietf.org" <aeon@ietf.org>
Subject: = Re: [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at = IETF90

 

=

Hi all,

 

The Bar BoF will be held in room Manitoba on the = MM floor. The time is Wednesday 11:45-12:45 Toronto local = time.

 

Looking forward to seeing you = tomorrow.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

= From:= Aeon [mailto:aeon-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2014 = 10:03 AM
To: aeon@ietf.org
Subject: = [Aeon] AECON Bar BOF at IETF90

 

Hi = all,

 

We will be having the = AECON Bar BOF Wednesday (23 Jul) noon during 11:45-12:45. Meeting place = will be notified soon. You are all welcome to attend the = discussion.

 

Best = regards,

Peng

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