Re: [alto] ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions

"Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com> Thu, 19 November 2020 01:24 UTC

Return-Path: <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>
X-Original-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 073983A10EC for <alto@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:24:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f_o6fDkgZdU9 for <alto@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:24:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from EUR05-DB8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-db8eur05on2129.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.20.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD41B3A10E9 for <alto@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Nov 2020 17:24:06 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cGFe3GuNI4TGcnnNDSrYDQ4jfR1TRc9iSeNIPeohVR9uZjO12m+Pn2tzfN2wcuL8L3MxOHkw0/UAGoOfKgUMU1LJ2+gcM/PfsGvcA7xYjt9Bpfd9HYkeTj6MW0f9Zq7IvU2m35Ql2v6EiSxV8kydWtaST0/Z0JQVVsQuShHiEZ+BWE6QvI/rkhGpQhHjC3IqTUFs6cUrfX0RxZgcr5EkcEehk4DdJmKSg44nIpVf1zQLhLTpvs5+0JIdMpl/cdVU5Bi4I3Ij9/FtAn7ts1rXsyNHjsxxiNEuLLQFWe7YvbpamG5AM1MnRfanTsu30AzYBUD2kfElMV44aT9+Anv+Lw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lbDeEH+tkIgl0UT8oh12wSnkqjgyb56Npf5vPUR03Hc=; b=KQiJ9tDT/G2x4I9qfytTf+SqGUGZiqyYife+7hTnx5HXvnOPeAvASIq1/ZcUJp6qcTTTfRqJdWCbx06oVm7X6UQVrHEhOGcrxoTJPI0yQVE0CqiuNuQnRH8+1Dzd4Z3iVUXAnTPQnh5Q3sTc+RoLyKrZGz/Ytse04T6OPATBXFRWqwwy6tDbKHKAF/Tjw8MdwR6IGxwbMYHYdDlxbvJxrAeM58wglXVPWhnvuCIE8gMrP457l2bj9yKHa+sebqxLQh2oQjEYVlGW41IaUISHjxw4nPGRm76kdmNt/Jl44YtbAxaSpp5F+vPoFrlDiW6SUt3rJ1bfDiwA4EeyHRynLg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia-bell-labs.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia-bell-labs.com; dkim=pass header.d=nokia-bell-labs.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lbDeEH+tkIgl0UT8oh12wSnkqjgyb56Npf5vPUR03Hc=; b=m30tMQg5quyEpzguMvNvL+Yny+Hbb5hlNclydnrIx3c9bLbQGQUSHykGxqaXBxpSD7UrlbPOhV8zARKdLdyBVXI44DJGEsV6WCWA3ivMGMoYffIOaruUR2kA1siEXcJhCI+YXw+Hoy7O4d4LBug9TqZgmCeoaYskQSeVdCUXy/o=
Received: from PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:7d::13) by PR3PR07MB6937.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:77::22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3589.15; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 01:24:01 +0000
Received: from PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::28dc:9051:62ab:b647]) by PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::28dc:9051:62ab:b647%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3611.011; Thu, 19 Nov 2020 01:24:01 +0000
From: "Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>
To: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>, IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions
Thread-Index: AQHWvDwxlgzwAFjIs02QmVkCBoZ3AanLAx5ggAHp4gCAAb7jgA==
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 01:24:00 +0000
Message-ID: <PR3PR07MB701828129D7DACEDBA7FCB8995E00@PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DBAPR07MB70154D197A6ACE5CAEEB38D795E90@DBAPR07MB7015.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <PR3PR07MB7018C95D0251F8769629134695E30@PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <PR3PR07MB70180BC3BBA3C2668016058295E30@PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <DB9PR06MB72424298FF768FD34C73DA6B9EE20@DB9PR06MB7242.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR06MB72424298FF768FD34C73DA6B9EE20@DB9PR06MB7242.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: telefonica.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;telefonica.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia-bell-labs.com;
x-originating-ip: [2a01:e0a:16a:5400:25aa:6a:5202:e60a]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0905fce8-9947-4ace-2639-08d88c29cb97
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PR3PR07MB6937:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <PR3PR07MB6937691E605C99EED1F5640895E00@PR3PR07MB6937.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: zCJdm1L3dZH7deJy9PhiZ+jLuB8PUKqx/q/4W1s9DJ/rnzWCG1JGVK50LDA6ioIHmD/P7JOrTovaNOpTqNnDgKgQ8BldRVth0rusNtRJC4fIp6ygI9wwr3529e4bbVc0qoNd0z24hz5HUPMZrPjQyGsryjUHJya1NKTL7i/4AkdxNlM5SQvmCV+359UNaqGVQpuxgw0GVAzznahg28Z3PcfTchKvLc7I6XKTZEiiKH/7PiHbUeUqVD/I70TiPcuwZlV6q5YLe/YnrdiRX2aavfpk/voT41f122PAO5uo6MD4PjjoYqApbZqCPOqpJ683Rf+OJCgW+haU2YWP4EzQndtQgGegP+Zt5dOhnUMMAA0XeH4BPRB/TJk2+GX3Uii/xN7KxgaL4M6Mi6QOfU7AGjghS4xs3AzpgUDIAYoKwqNvDw9GpeFDnEHu6JIrJFsqBT+TNw5Bv5TtmbHRAdiD1w==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(376002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(346002)(8936002)(66446008)(8676002)(33656002)(76116006)(66574015)(5660300002)(86362001)(66556008)(296002)(52536014)(316002)(166002)(66946007)(71200400001)(66476007)(64756008)(110136005)(2906002)(186003)(478600001)(9686003)(55016002)(6506007)(83380400001)(53546011)(966005)(7696005)(15940465004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_PR3PR07MB701828129D7DACEDBA7FCB8995E00PR3PR07MB7018eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia-bell-labs.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PR3PR07MB7018.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0905fce8-9947-4ace-2639-08d88c29cb97
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Nov 2020 01:24:00.9376 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cLICrIAiT+b5eNvaKrJMkV1aoyafok3KLwyHH5Y6+hAiGPykvsxlsItRU6yb6Hf7VIofP0u0SqZ7qIyQcOFgnjDtCzJtQdftNW4UfXCR35jrSJAnJEnbYNQrsBnhupiI
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR3PR07MB6937
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/PWxAcjzW_vA1kexMZlibHUUJMvM>
Subject: Re: [alto] ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions
X-BeenThere: alto@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Application-Layer Traffic Optimization \(alto\) WG mailing list" <alto.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/alto>, <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/alto/>
List-Post: <mailto:alto@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto>, <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 01:24:10 -0000

Hi Luis,

Thanks a lot for your feedback, please see inline
Best regards,
Sabine

From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:41 PM
To: Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>om>; IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions

Hi Sabine,

Some few comments, that have been actually mentioned by me during this weekly ALTO regular call.

.- I think the General Protocol Extension item for re-charter is a good place holder for maintenance and improvements of current protocol. For instance, I think that aspects such as the use of BGP communities (see draft-contreras-alto-bgp-communities) fits well in some item like this.
[ [SR] ] agree, there may be other necessary "general extensions". The proposed item does not mean to be restrictive.

.- Regarding the text itself, I do foresee use cases that could apply e.g. indications of SLA characteristics for discriminating the information retrieved. For instance, applications tolerant to the delay (e.g. database backups) could receive different information from those time critical.
[ [SR] ] agree, SLA and delay tolerant applications are mentioned in the presentation.

Hope this is aligned with your view.

Best regards,

Luis

De: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org>> En nombre de Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
Enviado el: lunes, 16 de noviembre de 2020 18:36
Para: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Asunto: Re: [alto] ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions

Hello,

Please find below a revision of the proposed definition paragraph.
This WG item is further detailed in the Google doc available here (page 19/25):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qP9jf-CMXvNiEE3YAnApTczAE4QkBW23Q1Eg99uOaEQ/edit

Thanks,
Sabine

--------------------------------------------
General protocol extensions to convey a richer set of attributes allowing to determine not only "where" and "when" to connect but also under which conditions. Such additional information will be related both to entities (e.g. conveying time-averaged server load in data center supported applications) and to path costs (e.g. ALTO path cost value depending on conditions such as real-time network indications or SLA or policy or access-type or indicator type).

The working group will specify such extension in coordination with both other ALTO working group items and IETF working groups that have a focus on the related use cases.  The scope of extensions is not limited to those identified by the WIs and WGs, but is limited by the criteria set out below.
--------------------------------------------


From: Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com<mailto:sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 6:16 PM
To: Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com<mailto:sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>>; IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions

Dear all,

The paragraph below is proposed to define the WG item on "general protocol extensions".
As the purpose of this work item is also to support other WG items that may need these extensions, your feedback again is more than welcome.
Thanks,
Sabine

General protocol extensions to convey a richer set of cost attributes allowing to determine not only "where" and "when" to connect but also under which conditions. Such additional information will be related both to entities (e.g. conveying time-averaged (cache storage capacities and)  server load in data center supported applications) and to ALTO path costs (e.g. ALTO path cost value depending on conditions such as real-time network indications or SLA or policy or access-type or indicator type).

The working group will specify such extension in coordination with both other ALTO working group items and IETF working groups that have a focus on the related use cases.  The scope of extensions is not limited to those identified by the WIs and WGs, but is limited by the criteria set out below.
--------------------------------------------

From: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 7:24 PM
To: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Subject: [alto] ALTO recharter: proposed item - General ALTO protocol extensions

Dear all,

Please find below a WG item proposal for "general ALTO protocol extensions", on which your feedback and suggestions will be more than welcome.
Thanks,
Sabine

---------- Context: the current ALTO charter
o Extends the path cost values in several directions:
              - single to array of several cost metrics => allows apps to decide upon several metrics and make decision compromise
              - single cost value to array if time dependent cost values => allow apps to determine when to connect
o Extends endpoints to entities on which properties are defined

---------- Basic Issues
+++  Issue 1: Some path cost values may depend on "contextual parameters" such as access type, SLA, policy or other indicators provided by network. In particular:
              - There may be different possible paths between source and destination, where some paths may or may not meet Application QoE or policy constraints. The Applications would like to see which path is most suitable.
              - Contextual parameters may be available at frequencies that are different from ALTO information frequency. For example, Cost on PID-Cell1 may differ, depending on some real-time network parameter value.

+++ Issue 2: Some entities may have properties whose values change over time. For instance, ANEs may have time-varying properties on cloud or networking resources

---------- Potential solution(s)
+++  To address issue 1 and related : extend cost attributes towards conditional values and parameters allowing a better interpretation of the received values
- Extension from single cost value to array of values dependent on context parameters:
allowing applications to make context-dependent decisions,
allowing also to combine information generated with different time dynamics, (freshness)
See examples on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-98-alto-alto-cost-context/

+++  To address issue 2:
- ALTO Property Calendars to extend a single property value to an array of time-dependent property values

---------- Remaining issues to be addressed
- How to define cost value attributes?
- How to achieve a light and flexible design?
- How to moderate additional Server workload and ALTO traffic increase?

---------- Who will work on it, rough planning
+++  Extensions may go in standalone documents and/or extend existing ones, eg ALTO performance metrics
+++ Contributors: Sabine and any other interested people
+++ Plans for IETF 110:
              -  Reactivation and update of related existing ALTO drafts
              -  First draft for ALTO Property Calendars

________________________________

Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição