Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5

LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com> Sat, 29 April 2023 17:01 UTC

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From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>
To: Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>, "kaigao@scu.edu.cn" <kaigao@scu.edu.cn>
CC: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5
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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 17:01:26 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/LlIwI-GvBzQP2PmDSGIuB3wEItk>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5
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Hi Jensen,

Thanks for your comment.

Please, see my answer in line.

Thank you,

Luis

De: Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>
Enviado el: miércoles, 26 de abril de 2023 2:29
Para: kaigao@scu.edu.cn
CC: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>; IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>; Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Asunto: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5

Hi Luis and all,

Thanks for this useful collection of data sources. Besides the data sources listed in this collection, I am wondering if the following kinds of data sources can also be considered:

1. Prefix information, e.g., internet routing registry (IRR). It provides route and provider related information attached to IP prefixes. It may be helpful for network/property map generation, or locating the network domain in multidomain settings.

[[Luis>]] This can be a useful information to add if different policies apply to different administrative domains. I think it could be used for map filtering purposes (as described in section 4.1.2 of RFC 7285). For instance thinking on the pilot we are doing in Telefonica for integrating ALTO with the Telefonica CDN, this property could be used for deciding from which streamer send the content to external prefixes of subscribers sitting in ISPs different from Telefonica.


2. Data plane information, e.g., routing and forwarding tables read from BGP looking glass server or other OAM tools. Although I see the "IETF TE Network topology" source can already provide routing information, it may focus on the control plane, e.g., routing policy, not the data plane.

[[Luis>]] Not 100% clear to me this point (i.e., your reference to data plane). So my answer could not be exactly addressing your question. In my view, relaying on tools like BGP looking glass can certainly provide information about reachability of prefixes, especially in multi-domain settings where there is no possibility of retrieving such information e.g. for another ALTO server. So it can help to infer some notion of cost map for a given point in time in relation with some IP prefixes. The best would be probably to pair with the corresponding ALTO server for that domain for getting the information directly, but if this is not possible, BGP looking glass could be certainly an alternative for indirectly obtaining such information.

3. Telemetry information, e.g., traceroute. It can get both routing and performance information. It may have some overlap with the performance metrics.

[[Luis>]] As before, it would be preferible to pair with corresponding ALTO servers for this. If not possible, that could be a way of inferring performance, which is somehow similar to what most of the applications make today for taking their own service decisions (I mean, inferring behaviors from performance metrics observed by their own).


Looking forward to seeing more discussions on this topic.

Best,
Jensen

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 10:55 PM <kaigao@scu.edu.cn<mailto:kaigao@scu.edu.cn>> wrote:

Hi Luis and all,



Thanks for the effort. The information is really useful and comprehensive. I think it lays a very good foundation to discuss and proceed with potential ALTO extensions.



With the rationale that, in my opinion, sets the expectations for each data source, I am wondering whether it is beneficial to discuss gaps and constraints as well.



For example, I used to work on providing ALTO maps using SDN, or more precisely, using Open Daylight. Open Daylight has very good (among the best AFAIK) YANG support and the topology models were already support a few years back. One problem, however, was that using the topology information alone cannot generate high-precision network map or cost map: you still need to know where the hosts are attached and what is the routing. Thus, it has to be combined with other data sources, for example, host tracker in the SDN case or BGP/BGP-LS in provider networks, or be limited to specific networks, for example, those using link state routing protocols.



I am not saying that the document should summarize the gaps and/or constraints of all the data sources. Rather, I feel that the topic might be a useful input to the interim meeting and to future ALTO extensions.



Best,

Kai



-----Original Messages----
From:"LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO" <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>>
Sent Time:2023-04-18 06:23:51 (Tuesday)
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>>, "IETF ALTO" <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Cc: "Qin Wu" <bill.wu@huawei.com<mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5
Hi Med, Qin, WG,

In order to provide inputs for:


* interim #3: Deployment Catalysts

•         Proposals to fix the integration complexity and integration with data sources

Jordi and I have been working on collecting some references that we consider as potential data sources of relevance for the WG and possible integration with ALTO. We have collected those inputs here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P4GrhQz_t17jIWg-3b1ycldhBWEEgIAAUZe2vjeO_1U/edit#gid=0

Please, feel free to access and check, all of you should be able to add/drop comments as well (let me know in case you need some permission for that). In the table we cover potential data sources, the rationale for considering them, existing reference work, as well as impacts on current ALTO. We hope this could be a basis for discussion for interim #3, but also to trigger discussions on the mailing list so we as WG can go to the interim with a more clear notion of the data sources and their implications.

Thanks

Best regards

Luis


De: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org>> En nombre de mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Enviado el: martes, 4 de abril de 2023 8:58
Para: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
CC: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com<mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
Asunto: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5

Hi all,

Please find below the proposed agenda for the forthcoming interims

* interim #2: WGLC follow-up of OAM/Transport I-Ds
* interim #3: Deployment Catalysts
·       Reuse existing network resources to identify ALTO resources (e.g., BGP communities)
·       Proposals to fix the integration complexity and integration with data sources
* interim #4: OAM/Transport I-Ds
* interim #5: Deployment Catalysts
·       Security/privacy isolation

Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Cheers,
Qin & Med


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