Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5

Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com> Fri, 05 May 2023 14:15 UTC

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From: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: "maqiufang (A)" <maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com" <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>
CC: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>, "draft-xie-alto-lmap@ietf.org" <draft-xie-alto-lmap@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5
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Date: Fri, 05 May 2023 14:14:57 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/NUm4KgOHLVldb_eXJ5PwGace-r0>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5
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Hi Qiufang,

Thank you for reviving your ALTO/LMAP draft and for incorporating the LMAP data source in the ALTO data sources document.

I agree with Luis and your comments below.

I did a pass on your draft and made some annotations, see the attached doc. Would you be able to generate an updated version and push it to the datatracker? If your draft is in a github repo, I can propose the changes and issue a pull request for your review. Otherwise, feel free to take the feedback from the attached doc.

Also, we apologize that during the interim meeting we could not cover all the material. Would you be able to present your ALTO/LMAP slide deck during the next ALTO meeting on Tuesday next week at 9am EST? I am happy to add it into the meeting's agenda.

Thanks,
Jordi on behalf of ALTO
________________________________
From: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 4, 2023 4:10
To: luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>
Cc: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>; draft-xie-alto-lmap@ietf.org <draft-xie-alto-lmap@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5


WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi, Luis



Thank you for getting back to me! Please see my reply inline.

From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2023 1:15 AM
To: maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1@huawei.com<mailto:maqiufang1@huawei.com>>; Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com<mailto:jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>>; kaigao@scu.edu.cn<mailto:kaigao@scu.edu.cn>
Cc: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>; xiechf@chinatelecom.cn<mailto:xiechf@chinatelecom.cn>; wangw36@chinatelecom.cn<mailto:wangw36@chinatelecom.cn>
Subject: RE: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5



Hi Qiufang,



Thanks for pointing this out.



I think what you propose makes sense. Probably details should be clarified in terms of how PIDs defined for the measurement agents could correlate with conventional PIDs, i.e., those representing IP address pools. Some ideas come to my mind that probably we could discuss.

[Qiufang] Good. I think you are right that we need to clarify how measurement agents is correlated with conventional PIDs, and How to represent ALTO cost map using LMAP results, given that the LMAP results is based on specific measurement agent located in particular endpoint or network device, while ALTO cost map is cost metric between aggregation of endpoints. Would appreciate your ideas and happy to have further discussion with you.



But yes, I see this interesting to contemplate to understand what kind of extensions could be derived from this scenario, certainly interesting for network operations.

[Qiufang] Happy to know that you’re interested in this work. Currently we are also trying to explore what kinds of extensions could be derived from this. Answers to this might dependent on whether the LMAP details(e.g., measurement/report agent location, report schedule info) need to be organized into ALTO information and exposed to ALTO clients and to what extent.



Thanks for commenting and good to see this reported in the compilation sheet.

[Qiufang] Thank you!

Best regards



Luis



Best Regards,

Qiufang



De: maqiufang (A) <maqiufang1@huawei.com<mailto:maqiufang1@huawei.com>>
Enviado el: miércoles, 26 de abril de 2023 11:12
Para: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>>; Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com<mailto:jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>>; kaigao@scu.edu.cn<mailto:kaigao@scu.edu.cn>
CC: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>; xiechf@chinatelecom.cn<mailto:xiechf@chinatelecom.cn>; wangw36@chinatelecom.cn<mailto:wangw36@chinatelecom.cn>
Asunto: RE: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5



Hi, Luis and all



Thanks for this effort. Jensen and Kai, I think your proposals make sense to me, maybe could be reflected on the shared spreadsheet?



I’ve Just added one more potential data source to the spreadsheet: LMAP (Large-Scale Measurement of Broadband Performance, RFC7594) network measurement results. That said, ALTO server can simply work as the LMAP collector and accept the report from the measurement agent which performs the measurement tasks as instructed by the LMAP controller.



PS. There is a draft (https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-xie-alto-lmap-00.txt) related to that, the authors plan to revive it very soon.



Best Regards,

Qiufang



From: alto [mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jensen Zhang
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 8:29 AM
To: kaigao@scu.edu.cn<mailto:kaigao@scu.edu.cn>
Cc: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>; Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com<mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5



Hi Luis and all,

Thanks for this useful collection of data sources. Besides the data sources listed in this collection, I am wondering if the following kinds of data sources can also be considered:

1. Prefix information, e.g., internet routing registry (IRR). It provides route and provider related information attached to IP prefixes. It may be helpful for network/property map generation, or locating the network domain in multidomain settings.

2. Data plane information, e.g., routing and forwarding tables read from BGP looking glass server or other OAM tools. Although I see the "IETF TE Network topology" source can already provide routing information, it may focus on the control plane, e.g., routing policy, not the data plane.

3. Telemetry information, e.g., traceroute. It can get both routing and performance information. It may have some overlap with the performance metrics.

Looking forward to seeing more discussions on this topic.

Best,
Jensen



On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 10:55 PM <kaigao@scu.edu.cn<mailto:kaigao@scu.edu.cn>> wrote:

Hi Luis and all,



Thanks for the effort. The information is really useful and comprehensive. I think it lays a very good foundation to discuss and proceed with potential ALTO extensions.



With the rationale that, in my opinion, sets the expectations for each data source, I am wondering whether it is beneficial to discuss gaps and constraints as well.



For example, I used to work on providing ALTO maps using SDN, or more precisely, using Open Daylight. Open Daylight has very good (among the best AFAIK) YANG support and the topology models were already support a few years back. One problem, however, was that using the topology information alone cannot generate high-precision network map or cost map: you still need to know where the hosts are attached and what is the routing. Thus, it has to be combined with other data sources, for example, host tracker in the SDN case or BGP/BGP-LS in provider networks, or be limited to specific networks, for example, those using link state routing protocols.



I am not saying that the document should summarize the gaps and/or constraints of all the data sources. Rather, I feel that the topic might be a useful input to the interim meeting and to future ALTO extensions.



Best,

Kai



-----Original Messages----
From:"LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO" <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com<mailto:luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>>
Sent Time:2023-04-18 06:23:51 (Tuesday)
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>>, "IETF ALTO" <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Cc: "Qin Wu" <bill.wu@huawei.com<mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
Subject: Re: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5

Hi Med, Qin, WG,



In order to provide inputs for:



* interim #3: Deployment Catalysts

•         Proposals to fix the integration complexity and integration with data sources



Jordi and I have been working on collecting some references that we consider as potential data sources of relevance for the WG and possible integration with ALTO. We have collected those inputs here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P4GrhQz_t17jIWg-3b1ycldhBWEEgIAAUZe2vjeO_1U/edit#gid=0



Please, feel free to access and check, all of you should be able to add/drop comments as well (let me know in case you need some permission for that). In the table we cover potential data sources, the rationale for considering them, existing reference work, as well as impacts on current ALTO. We hope this could be a basis for discussion for interim #3, but also to trigger discussions on the mailing list so we as WG can go to the interim with a more clear notion of the data sources and their implications.



Thanks



Best regards



Luis





De: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org>> En nombre de mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Enviado el: martes, 4 de abril de 2023 8:58
Para: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
CC: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com<mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com>>
Asunto: [alto] Proposed Agenda for Interims #2-5



Hi all,



Please find below the proposed agenda for the forthcoming interims



* interim #2: WGLC follow-up of OAM/Transport I-Ds

* interim #3: Deployment Catalysts

·         Reuse existing network resources to identify ALTO resources (e.g., BGP communities)

·         Proposals to fix the integration complexity and integration with data sources

* interim #4: OAM/Transport I-Ds

* interim #5: Deployment Catalysts

·         Security/privacy isolation



Comments and suggestions are welcome.



Cheers,

Qin & Med



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