Re: [alto] unified-props, cellular addresses and path-vector - registry

"Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <> Tue, 27 February 2018 22:17 UTC

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From: "Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <>
To: Jensen Zhang <>, Kai Gao <>
CC: "" <>
Thread-Topic: [alto] unified-props, cellular addresses and path-vector - registry
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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:17:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [alto] unified-props, cellular addresses and path-vector - registry
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Hi Jensen, Kai, Vijay, all

Thanks all for this discussion on registries, which needs a separate thread so I added “registry” to the initial thread.
The ALTO Entity Domain Registry of the Unified Properties (UP) draft is to be seen as an extension of the ALTO Address Type Registry specified in RFC 7285. Indeed ipv4 and ipv6 map to both ALTO Address Type and ALTO Domain Type where the latter set covers the first one.

Definitely, Jensen’s explanations (items 1) and 2) ) in his e-mail of Feb 27, 2018 at 3:10 PM should be used in sections 2.7 or 9.2 of the UP draft to clarify the relation between both.

For section 9.2  of the UP draft, I agree with Jensen’s views and understand Kai’s concerns. We may consider adding a sentence generalized from Sections and to have something like :
"When a new address type is registered in the ALTO Address Type Registry of [RFC7285], the same identifier MUST be also registered in the ALTO Entity Domain Registry. And the Entity Address Encoding for this entity domain identifier MUST cover both Address Encoding and Prefix Encoding of the same identifier registered in the ALTO Address Type Registry [RFC7285]."
“For the purpose of defining properties, an individual Entity address and the corresponding full-length prefix are considered aliases for the same entity.”

Would this help addressing the issue?


From: alto [] On Behalf Of Jensen Zhang
Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 10:11 AM
To: Kai Gao <>
Subject: Re: [alto] unified-props, cellular addresses and path-vector

Hi Kai,

Thanks for your comment. See inline.
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 4:38 PM Kai Gao <<>> wrote:
Hi Jensen,

Please see inline.

On 02/27/2018 03:44 PM, Jensen Zhang wrote:
Hi all,

Continue the discussion above. I suggest modifying the first paragraph of page 26 of draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-01

"It is RECOMMANDED that a new ALTO entity domain be registered when the corresponding address type is registered based on ALTO Address Type Registry [RFC7285]."

as the following:

"When a new address type is registered in the ALTO Address Type Registry [RFC7285], the same identifier MUST be also registered in the ALTO Entity Domain Registry. And the Entity Address Encoding of this entity domain identifier MUST include both Address Encoding and Prefix Encoding of the same identifier registered in the ALTO Address Type Registry [RFC7285]."
It might be odd to have two encodings for a single entry. Since address encoding is actually a special case of prefix encoding, maybe we can use prefix encoding alone?

The words may need to be revised. But we indeed hope to accept both Address Encoding and Prefix Encoding as the valid Entity Address Encoding. Using prefix encoding alone is not consistent with what "ipv4" and "ipv6" domain do in Section 3.1 of draft-alto-unified-props-new-01.

Any comment?

On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 3:10 PM Jensen Zhang <<>> wrote:
Hi Vijay,

It is a good point to explain the relationship of "ALTO Address Type Registry" and "ALTO Entity Domain Registry".

See my comment inline.
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 3:21 AM Vijay K. Gurbani <<>> wrote:
[As co-chair]

Sabine, Richard: If you decide to proceed as you outline below, then
please realize that time is of essence.

[As individual contributor]

I am a bit confused by this discussion though.  Are cellular addresses
ALTO address types?  In which case they will have to be registered in
the ALTO Address Type Registry as detailed in Section 14.4 of the base
Yes, cellular address are ALTO address types. So of course they should be registered in the "ALTO Address Type Registry" based on RFC7285.

Or are cellular address ALTO entities?  In which case they will have to
be registered through unified-props registry in Section 9.2 of the
unified-props document [2]?
And yes, cellular addresses "should" also be ALTO entities. But let's delay the answer to this question and see the following questions first.

Why do we have legacy identifiers like 'ipv4' and 'ipv6' being
registered in two registries, i.e., in the registries of [1] and [2]?
In fact, why do we have a ALTO Entity Domain Registry in [2] at all?
Why we introduce a new Registry? Because the key idea is to move the property map service from endpoint scope to the more general scope (which we call "entity domain" in the draft).

1) in this general scope, an entity MAY or MAY NOT be an endpoint. For example, "pid" is introduced as an entity domain, but it is not an endpoint address type. To allow this, we need this new registry.
2) But to cover the capability of the endpoint property service, an endpoint MUST be an entity. As the result, "ipv4" and "ipv6" are registered in both "ALTO Address Type Register" and "ALTO Entity Domain Registry".

Now let's go back to the question "are cellular addresses ALTO entities?". Sure, as they are ALTO endpoint addresses, they MUST be ALTO entities. So they MUST be registered in the "ALTO Entity Domain Registry".

I am afraid I am missing something ... can you please elaborate?

Is it clear now? Do we agree on this? Or Sabine and Richad want to say anything?

I think we need to well define the process of the ALTO Entity Domain Registry to guarantee the syntax and semantics of the same indentifier registered in both Registries are consistent. And I think this may be a missing item in the current unified-props draft. If we fix this part, the draft should be ready.




On 02/26/2018 10:18 AM, Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> I agree, the Unified Property draft is definitely a good placeholder for
> the cellular addresses. Domain and entities are already defined in
> . So how about in a next step, we consider pouring the content of the
> latter draft in the UP draft and in a further step propose a list of
> properties, while looking at other WG to see whether they already
> specified any?

- vijay
Vijay K. Gurbani /<>
Network Data Science, Nokia Networks

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