Re: [alto] I-D Action: draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09.txt

"Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com> Thu, 10 October 2019 13:07 UTC

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From: "Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>
To: Kai GAO <godrickk@gmail.com>, Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>
CC: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [alto] I-D Action: draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09.txt
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Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2019 13:07:06 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/Z3xGb4E2GbG-PkH6_cN2BHm-PuU>
Subject: Re: [alto] I-D Action: draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09.txt
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Hi Jensen, Kai

Thanks Kai for your suggestions, please see my comments inline
Best regards,
Sabine


From: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org>; On Behalf Of Kai GAO
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 5:42 AM
To: Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>;
Cc: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org>;
Subject: Re: [alto] I-D Action: draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09.txt

Sounds good. :)

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59 AM Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com<mailto:jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Kai,

Great! This structure looks better to clarify those concepts. I would like to support it. If nobody has another proposal against it, let's add this change in the next revision.

I can send a new draft to you by this weekend so that you can take another pass before we upload the next revision.

Thanks,
Jensen


On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:46 PM Kai GAO <godrickk@gmail.com<mailto:godrickk@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jensen and all,

Actually, I would suggest the following structure:

- Basic Concepts
  - Information Resource
[[SR]] it is indeed good to start with the Information Resource that this draft introduces, which is the Property Map. Maybe provide a “human-readable” definition and explain how it extends properties from endpoints to entities and allows resource-specific entities and properties for purposes of locality and others. And say this will be detailed in further sections. Maybe also add a subsection with examples?
  - Entity
  - Entity Property
  - Entity Domain
- Property Map  <====  Explain how property map works and the motivations for exporting and aggregating entity domains
  - Resource-Specific Entity Domain
  - Aggregated Entity Domain
  - Resource-Specify Entity Property

The two top-level sections (basic concepts and property map) are similar to Sec 2 (Terminology) and Sec 5 (Network Map) in RFC 7285.

In the basic concepts section, we are describing what already exists even without the property map service.
[[SR]] Not sure I understand. RFC7285 supports Endpoint property maps, not Entity property maps. So what is it that already exists?

In the property map section, we are "inventing" concepts that serve certain practical purposes (e.g., provide indications of what entities/properties can be queried, aggregate entities/properties).

Having said that, it is OK with me that we keep the current structure or only make some small changes if it requires too much work.

Best,
Kai



On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 12:11 AM Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com<mailto:jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Kai,

I reviewed the document again. I think you are proposing the following restructure, right?

Entity -> Information Resource -> Entity Property (Resource-Specific Entity Property) -> Property Map -> Entity Domain (Resource-Specific Entity Domain, Aggregated Entity Domain)

Intuitively it looks good. But when you look into the motivation of Resource-Specific Entity Property, you will find it is weak here. Because only when you use the Aggregated Entity Domain representation in a Property Map, you will need this concept. Otherwise, it is useless. That is why I put it behind those two concepts. But maybe your intuition is right. The " Resource-Specific Entity Property" should be out of "Entity Domain". How about we move 2.5.4 to 2.6? How do you think?

Best,
Jensen


On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:02 AM Kai GAO <godrickk@gmail.com<mailto:godrickk@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Jensen and all,

I'm looking at the -10 version and find it quite odd to have 2.5.4 Resource-specific Entity Property as a subsection of 2.4 Entity Domain.

My suggestion is to move 2.5.4 to 2.2 instead. Another potential improvement is to move 2.4 Information Resource before 2.2.

Best,
Kai



On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 5:28 AM Jensen Zhang <jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com<mailto:jingxuan.n.zhang@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Danny,

Thanks for your review and comments. Sabine and I are working on the next revision. We will address all the issues in the next revision.

And for your additional comment, actually, the "ip-pid-property-map" resource in IRD is an example of Aggregated Entity Domain. Sec 9.7 should illustrate it. But you are right, the current example in Sec 9.7 does not show the benefit of Aggregated Entity Domain. I will also revise this example in the next revision.

Looking forward to your further comments.

Thanks,
Jensen


On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 9:50 AM Danny Alex Lachos Perez <dlachosper@gmail.com<mailto:dlachosper@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Sabine,

I have a quick additional comment:

I believe that an example (sec. 9) of Aggregated Entity Domain is missing.
Perhaps you could re-use (or extend) the IRD example [0] and try to add a couple of sentences to indicate equivalent entity property mappings (see slide 17, 18 in [1]).

Best regards,

Danny Lachos
[0] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09#page-28
[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-alto-unified-properties-for-the-alto-protocol-02.pdf

On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:42 AM Randriamasy, Sabine (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay) <sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com<mailto:sabine.randriamasy@nokia-bell-labs.com>> wrote:
Hi Danny,

Many thanks for your review. I saw your last comment is in Section 9.7.
Should we consider that until section 9.7 your review is complete or will you have more questions?
We look forward to your other comments,
Best regards,
Sabine


From: alto <alto-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alto-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Danny Alex Lachos Perez
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 8:28 PM
To: IETF ALTO <alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org>>
Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org<mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [alto] I-D Action: draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09....txt

Dear authors,

I started to read the “Unified Properties for the ALTO Protocol” draft (-09).

Please, see my first comments in the attached file (search for '[DANNY]').
Many of them are suggestions about clarity and format issues .

I will continue the review and send additional comments in a short time.

Best regards,

Danny Lachos


On Wed, Sep 4, 2019 at 10:41 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Application-Layer Traffic Optimization WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Unified Properties for the ALTO Protocol
        Authors         : Wendy Roome
                          Sabine Randriamasy
                          Y. Richard Yang
                          Jingxuan Jensen Zhang
                          Kai Gao
        Filename        : draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09.txt
        Pages           : 43
        Date            : 2019-09-04

Abstract:
   This document extends the Application-Layer Traffic Optimization
   (ALTO) Protocol [RFC7285] by generalizing the concept of "endpoint
   properties" to generic types of entities, and by presenting those
   properties as maps, similar to the network and cost maps in
   [RFC7285].



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-alto-unified-props-new-09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org<http://tools.ietf.org>.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp....ietf.org/internet-drafts/<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/>

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