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From: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: "duzongpeng@foxmail.com" <duzongpeng@foxmail.com>, cats <cats@ietf.org>,
 "'alto@ietf.org'" <alto@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Cats] New draft on joint exposure of network and compute
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 22:34:43 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/b3JDOloz6sX8I9EPPbcEM5G6x8U>
Subject: Re: [alto] [Cats] New draft on joint exposure of network and
 compute information
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--_000_SN6PR02MB53750D4050F8BBF79E985C35F6A0ASN6PR02MB5375namp_
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Thanks Zongpeng for your comments. Below my replies.

Jordi

---------

Hi, Jordi


Some comments about the draft for discussion.


The service instances should be deployed firstly, and then the instance sel=
ection would take place only if multiple instances exists for the client re=
quest.


    [JRG] Correct. Note also that at selection time, even if there is no se=
rvice replication, the application can still benefit from exposure of commu=
nication information. For instance, if a host running an application has mu=
ltiple air interfaces (5G, 4G, Wi-Fi), it can decide which one to use to co=
nnect to the service instance based on end-to-end bandwidth and latency inf=
ormation for each interface.



In the deployment procedure, the computer information is more detailed, and=
 I think that only the operators that has the right are able to obtain the =
information.


    [JRG] In a data center, service providers can have knowledge of the ava=
ilable compute resources in a certain region to help them make deployment d=
ecisions. At the edge, service providers are also in need to have some leve=
l of compute information for the same reason.


The process in the Kubernets should be similar. They can manage the cloud, =
select a node/place, and deploy a POD.



I notice that in table 1, it says, in the service placement, service provid=
ers need compute and communication information. However, the communication =
information perhaps is not E2E, such as latency, unless we know where the c=
lient is connected into the network. Perhaps, it means the "as well as band=
width capacity for forwarding the traffic generated in and out of the corre=
sponding data center." mentioned in the first Section?


    [JRG] Correct. For the service placement case, communication refers to =
endpoint (and not end-to-end) metrics such as incoming/outgoing bandwidth.



In the service instance selection procedure, it can be decided in the centr=
alized server such as the ALTO server, or in the CATS ingress. In the forme=
r case, the centralized server (decision point) can be aware of more inform=
ation, e.g. multiple metrics, and make a decision. In the later case, which=
 is called on-path decision, we perhaps need simpler metrics, which is stil=
l under working.


    [JRG] I agree.


----------

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_Embe=
ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks Zongpeng for your comments. Below my repl=
ies.</span></div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_Embe=
ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_Embe=
ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Jordi</span></div>
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ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_Embe=
ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">---------</span></div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_Embe=
ddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
2pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"line-height: 1.5; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&quot;=
; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Hi,&nbsp;Jordi&nbsp;</div>
<div style=3D"line-height: 1.5; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&quot;=
; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Some comments about the draft =
for discussion.</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The service instances should b=
e deployed firstly, and then the instance selection would take place&nbsp;o=
nly if multiple&nbsp;instances exists for the client request.</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; [JRG] Correct. N=
ote also that at selection time, even if there is no service replication, t=
he application can still benefit from exposure of communication
 information. For instance, if a host running an application has multiple a=
ir interfaces (5G, 4G, Wi-Fi), it can decide which one to use to connect to=
 the service instance based on end-to-end bandwidth and latency information=
 for each interface.</span></p>
<p style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt=
;"><span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei U=
I&quot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">In the deployment procedure, t=
he computer information is more detailed, and I think that only the operato=
rs&nbsp;that has the right are able to obtain the
 information.&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; [JRG] In a data =
center, service providers can have knowledge of the available compute resou=
rces in a certain region to help them make deployment
 decisions. At the edge, service providers are also in need to have some le=
vel of compute information for the same reason.</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">The process in the Kubernets s=
hould be similar. They can manage the cloud, select a node/place, and deplo=
y a POD.</span></p>
<p style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5; margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt=
;"><span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei U=
I&quot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I notice that in table 1, it s=
ays, in the service placement, service providers need compute and communica=
tion information. However, the communication&nbsp;information
 perhaps is not E2E, such as latency, unless we know where the client is co=
nnected&nbsp;into the network. Perhaps, it means the &quot;as well as bandw=
idth capacity for forwarding the traffic generated in and out of the corres=
ponding data center.&quot; mentioned in the first
 Section?</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; [JRG] Correct. F=
or the service placement case, communication refers to endpoint (and not en=
d-to-end) metrics such as incoming/outgoing bandwidth.</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">In the service instance select=
ion procedure, it can be decided in the centralized&nbsp;server such as the=
 ALTO server, or in the CATS ingress. In the former
 case, the </span><span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Mi=
crosoft YaHei UI&quot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-co=
lor: transparent;">centralized&nbsp;server (decision point) can be aware of=
 more information, e.g. multiple&nbsp;metrics, and make
 a decision. </span><span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;=
Microsoft YaHei UI&quot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">In the lat=
er case, which is called on-path decision, we perhaps need simpler metrics,=
 which&nbsp;is still under working.</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"text-align: justify; line-height: 1.5;=
 margin: 0pt 0pt 0.0001pt;">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: 0pt; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&q=
uot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">&nbsp; &nbsp; [JRG] I agree.</=
span></p>
<div style=3D"line-height: 1.5; font-family: &quot;Microsoft YaHei UI&quot;=
; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"elementToProof" style=3D"line-height: 1.5; font-family: &quot=
;Microsoft YaHei UI&quot;; font-size: 14px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService,=
 Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">----------</span></div>
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cm; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223);">
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