From jros@qti.qualcomm.com  Sun Nov  5 00:40:57 2023
Return-Path: <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
X-Original-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2187C232056;
 Sun,  5 Nov 2023 00:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.005
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.005 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001,
 URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001]
 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
 header.d=qualcomm.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194])
 by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id sI2IejF9-8RZ; Sun,  5 Nov 2023 00:40:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-0031df01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0031df01.pphosted.com
 [205.220.168.131])
 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
 (No client certificate requested)
 by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE243C46AC5A;
 Sun,  5 Nov 2023 00:39:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0279862.ppops.net [127.0.0.1])
 by mx0a-0031df01.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id
 3A57dZOZ003103; Sun, 5 Nov 2023 07:39:36 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=qualcomm.com;
 h=from : to : cc :
 subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type :
 mime-version; s=qcppdkim1;
 bh=zaNwDF9DDdFdJTotuDU/uTXVKzVuet+H0kJVzyMnzK8=;
 b=bOKbE83rWCggI/CiOWq0pKnwS3tzqj2VZSl6506ihS/B1GDtyi9L8NEvzkqrAU/MWl2z
 GzLqCUuoZR6aRe00b4DX+wtGX25Rl9LElvqVSTSmxUfoi3XmpBYlqD9IyeLBdNOicwHv
 LLOTsRfblzpWBh62CTYOUYrtvpusAoxEyir1TLPSsrcyG65Y1c0q2BzfmnySkoUH9Zp9
 GBxBdsnFAss7pppBteZpfPFekKQ3H0wA6k2Y4Q3IICr8Zz64ZLBgLL+qHALxI7kg3oNk
 AjqHtgctTRbSdqYsW2c9eRhZ5noERSMtq2uOxIW1Tlk4PVYM66dwvatVJ9xPWWNbmbqL Nw== 
Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
 (mail-dm6nam10lp2100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.100])
 by mx0a-0031df01.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3u5eqn1p5k-1
 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT);
 Sun, 05 Nov 2023 07:39:36 +0000
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none;
 b=JOO4ZEPtYPTafmbiqYsZC+f2Aq5HOsJP93YTe3TRshGMfrUdH+pj8pCEnRviKdZ4myIjhDcENJ2F456cVyC/Bas6ycMO1pGOjen40FPnxBrA35lqRTWGrMRjUlki7Lrh5q6oxMW/6l32DiTJLHAXYtbTDp4vrwrEwAm/vZq/g704zvbMcGAQLPMN7pmra2t6ROahdIteXxSZMY8QTgbrLwiGDvvJXmL/5VQGLS8JIbY1CUJBrrF6kG7z9a+7xap8PR7AWePeifikueukFKmk5+6SBVpj4BtXogmUBdHGKBo96Csqojf6rgZiwH11oo6kENHccfXC8Wbu1+a/h/Tfag==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; 
 s=arcselector9901;
 h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1;
 bh=zaNwDF9DDdFdJTotuDU/uTXVKzVuet+H0kJVzyMnzK8=;
 b=mpZ/M9CNWQLVomi8F7w/pASTxzAHyZ1kMTLy6hGyko5CjdAYAiE1iNX/7+vG9+V2w6p/drlFhGehE7LX1kRAKAHTzJI2LymV6+Vu64XdBedJ5y4MSQ3FymBrGah7NVc0H9Cd64llEFEa+auLrpYlg1OsbNx19SDE92YmZDLtz2a6I7m7Kafxn4ytJmkPrTw22AeTuwl+tXXW/bhrJelyvfw2oiDLr4vHpf/MiyCALdaSniDk7ofd2POMpMDJ50bxu0jPA0CO6ckmZ0L1j2rN3SzqpWmybD9fb0nR7XrePttfoC8BXtlBU2mbZQPqFiouXldVQDEb8HpTdA28jeQ1Hw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass
 smtp.mailfrom=qti.qualcomm.com; dmarc=pass action=none
 header.from=qti.qualcomm.com; dkim=pass header.d=qti.qualcomm.com; arc=none
Received: from SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:805:75::12)
 by PH7PR02MB9991.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:2f8::16)
 with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2,
 cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6954.27; Sun, 5 Nov
 2023 07:39:11 +0000
Received: from SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
 ([fe80::b53:98b6:51e4:f458]) by SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
 ([fe80::b53:98b6:51e4:f458%4]) with mapi id 15.20.6954.027; Sun, 5 Nov 2023
 07:39:10 +0000
From: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>
To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO
 <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>, Linda Dunbar
 <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>,
 "cats@ietf.org" <cats@ietf.org>, "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>,
 "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,
 "weilin_wang@bjtu.edu.cn" <weilin_wang@bjtu.edu.cn>
CC: "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and compute
 information
Thread-Index: AQHaBmtv3lfj91oqKU6ZkcpSGEnn+bBlvBbQgAGZq8iAAAs5AIAANinQgAAFnwCAA8tkPw==
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2023 07:39:09 +0000
Message-ID: <SN6PR02MB5375996503565402FB71E16AF6ABA@SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <SN6PR02MB5375B8BF953E8F8F281BFDBCF6DFA@SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <CO1PR13MB492089AF5B56E19C76E40F2785A7A@CO1PR13MB4920.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
 <SN6PR02MB53752009FD62F6ADB813026DF6A6A@SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <a6899c41-50f5-4a43-a879-344b46d64427@joelhalpern.com>
 <DB9PR06MB7915720B71D529F8E8F9F9679EA6A@DB9PR06MB7915.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <97e45412-7d7c-4bcd-a1bb-2daa77ec147b@joelhalpern.com>
In-Reply-To: <97e45412-7d7c-4bcd-a1bb-2daa77ec147b@joelhalpern.com>
Accept-Language: en-US, es-ES, ca-ES
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
msip_labels: 
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN6PR02MB5375:EE_|PH7PR02MB9991:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 680e40fe-5ad7-444e-c283-08dbddd24c1c
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:;
 IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE;
 SFS:(13230031)(376002)(346002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(230922051799003)(230273577357003)(230173577357003)(1800799009)(186009)(64100799003)(451199024)(38070700009)(66899024)(33656002)(55016003)(316002)(66574015)(52536014)(83380400001)(4326008)(8676002)(8936002)(26005)(110136005)(64756008)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(66946007)(91956017)(76116006)(5660300002)(30864003)(41300700001)(2906002)(478600001)(9686003)(19627405001)(966005)(71200400001)(53546011)(7696005)(6506007)(19627235002)(122000001)(86362001)(166002)(38100700002)(15398625002);
 DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; 
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?Windows-1252?Q?eZK0QiTvP210CmAHwjFIyTJ+GzOgjKA7zTINJGJTk6MaBPxY82EFODcC?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?EEu0+oA+pKgBL8UqXnnAl1oAQkcuU8HTh+ZAzpJRb9byIIeKvDYceoFN?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?JfQt4QnKRLc60Q1pZEmMN1cX8Pfm6uU5TTa07XltWhub5VO936wftcWK?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?1K49RkP4fCx6GBu5y19W+Ez8OGeZKHVPbsh7OODDvyiHLrZ7JucZCWQ7?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?eEgoVN2MTgUzz9MDk+p/3UzSpMRlBWTb3B7lLEHeMQFNNLX/s7YuN6Ta?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?cEflnjPyg3/NCNQqIOuFDSNTvkbDhqFFWq32IL0A6+27bGAlvQjUlFbx?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?27OMhrW5SbA8rCfGUQXwnCYo/KllkP2YXYbCXYsNW9fDLF2K18i2qC77?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?09wj39fnQQ6hhEoZEWW1CTB425ezvashwqWErn4MAzBS/X6Mm3fb2JJo?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?TNvVEyya5dAWR+T2ooryaG8VGZTdcU5rD3M3/06HOYuuy5DCVGI8CY2G?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?8tdb0gg3ceSS8gAr+7e6rcrxmZ1a40+MsjDDpt0NHUfB5fziT+dfTLEb?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?/rT48s9+YUCpAygxXZmlktFdpX2CeNnGhB/JrJ6WANuK3J/3fGWjwhP5?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?x4aOOIZfGfWP/7BWLXvHE7UARFYw2P27a3zzBF9T9wizd2WdcJ1qrfV9?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?B44CJE3kWq8EGidD9gh+DFpdeDFZs0N7mEBEQAwg7gjQG699FIyW0b+n?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?KiGwjprSe3GR5onne8y97N2u9RvqSjKlIz8H9W2EeuL2qsqZX/ZcSsmz?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?lGdouGn/rjegAKjNZKTQfYjYWKeOdLZRYDL82sOD6G8tM/bgRCn9Re8S?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?Y8V+/FEnHzYlqYn0NkOuO48av6KyiO2rfKxVuW1pRjcZlo6k+IxAEEPC?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?lHZsyCtp1HBChx6S5DnSlV7dfAix9alubmChAwJafEkEwmJbS9nGY/kB?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?M+M7yUaPGipPZScF2UL2xhZ8qZh/oI87yNtYa3kt9Gxgff+xDwgmvy0s?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?9SWYDpdCWxpUWkF22kr0bB3j+1TCE2YENxLLlaHIXRImwsFfjaXA3poL?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?tgmfN+/ZsdKaxxkPYkNfodkozJ8E4JFMx4ljZjcZFZU2V6LRSdaUYtc8?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?1zqB+rGOu85b6KcBLR5v3uLFi/ijcE3MfOnckeB1dGe4qBYNy/N7su65?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?xXCft9wMKDKMyud5qiz4RhIkuBy7ylPC94y69WalYxJedX3xsu03AHTB?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?hPqjrrb7b91NPBNOtHafI7XHjC+IoX8pDdW1ADerjAdU5nMYGQF660n/?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?374E42hzNBST4xLTTqrUm0XVzZ74I5uOF1iYsR5Yf/F139EDLnOImm2S?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?819ShO5w1So5FbniELp3qtsnSvJEGuXcqn2XXA8SFjUmnGx/9i1ZOEhp?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?Z1FI61mElbRu5qe+8TBqDjcWu+ZtQ8htxDvK+b8fxHturo2rymKYHDRg?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?96xRCrptx9QJOjF692+f2lEG/hZCywVLJFrYxkVm6uLK8oz9j62wZRk7?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?4XbUrQqS9QPV+yOL3UcwgRPinWYqGFXETytBslzMR5D6D/NFu/xEHpXh?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?ygqvQi90Ui/hSzchC+GjiEQyZJwtYSRt?=
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="_000_SN6PR02MB5375996503565402FB71E16AF6ABASN6PR02MB5375namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: =?Windows-1252?Q?mBKMhAINehKgJ+sV/Vx5EPRgtEi8wOtEWLReQxsgFJ4uHiu1Tx6+U8rl?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?FBfRfH/wrRICm6FagkXzK4jw6VE/a/oBHFr9ZC5ndV3LZAxjrpulzfPK?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?nZg1zgTAkdV5T6rm8zmz+J1Og6ye232OTPOchRryYjg8FcvoDZvnITUS?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?Gs/P6gOhF/3DCaI6vZskaJG/EyuooXmoUJj+wqgn1GtvuhtnxegZww8E?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?j0d6SLAHS7JelHVesjX2CIFSnjqig+a6l3fddjqSiD2FUefdhnsV6wR9?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?8XvgOyjCgvxXEV14LCwAXZ25nGUC1FpUyr0w2rZXn0+0gm95TcMowHD/?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?UsZOrkM/UFbaNTSt6cEkRjCqJUc+3V+6IbwluN3HMDcDYgH9VEBT3dlI?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?TdzjQGq69lz8+8tfuAGUJtSC8JelNOIs8VEuCSZwx2E2bM0yeFI0M0oJ?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?jDFnEpzw2tJZbYT2EWX5+P5LxlKhDQXFQLGdxPwP+J2ADWztE7m1Lt8+?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?iCoZ2cgpYZ65NuKMsBNzt4E1AZsjPFAMN7ZFzhP2SwLwaj2PbP1PtB/z?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?mWGdFnTLQP6tEz+KwDt9t2qavx/inGnkNZ4VK2NmhY2UPZprTm18ab90?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?XuwbdI6Seyo6MkODT2W3bM+Ipgjg6xZqpL3sf0ujqjWAiFZSZzWBW0gh?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?9aRVF2ciBeMLtRE7xFIp8oQNH3ednlUeOkHGpB55a01YGXXEnpXFiVq7?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?2/Wy5TVuhiFT9ZniBHN/j8oMUdnAo4QKBoe17y1hSNf0f6vD8KVHgQxK?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?IK1rHC5shgB4cht9TB8DvbkypWV5oz1fSOx6ogkA3ZWccvAdPJi6bCgc?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?VwZ7UEJUmziNrArJlKeoPhS2/eULMJGkyE5dhjjMkxCsJ17aXkSvGeRy?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?/KZVu6mArUnY1ZFbhG8ScZPLvfXrq1/uJC/Wv9p/ss2WSLUV7hZTd+DI?=
 =?Windows-1252?Q?LrOzlmAO?=
X-OriginatorOrg: qti.qualcomm.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN6PR02MB5375.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 680e40fe-5ad7-444e-c283-08dbddd24c1c
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Nov 2023 07:39:09.2849 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98e9ba89-e1a1-4e38-9007-8bdabc25de1d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: sE39vruSdFwi0xxT5/rLBiWeS34QvpJjkC2ikj110WUCgftUnIkwJ8EHW6tvArbBw+I29WPP9byYoc91uJmisQ==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH7PR02MB9991
X-Proofpoint-GUID: uYZRtqDzDT6JUEjmnh7wu-0w2-xRU2sO
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: uYZRtqDzDT6JUEjmnh7wu-0w2-xRU2sO
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard
 engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.987,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26
 definitions=2023-11-05_04,2023-11-02_03,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0
 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0
 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999
 priorityscore=1501 phishscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0
 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1
 engine=8.12.0-2310240000 definitions=main-2311050064
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/sw_D1ey2p0YDKlbwajYDVxaqNK8>
Subject: Re: [alto] [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and
 compute information
X-BeenThere: alto@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Application-Layer Traffic Optimization \(alto\) WG mailing list"
 <alto.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/alto>,
 <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/alto/>
List-Post: <mailto:alto@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto>,
 <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 07:40:58 -0000

--_000_SN6PR02MB5375996503565402FB71E16AF6ABASN6PR02MB5375namp_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks all.

I am summarizing some of the key questions that are emanating from the conv=
ersations below and that I think are important to discuss. I am also includ=
ing my thoughts.

(1) Is it likely that the network can expose communication and compute info=
rmation to the service provider and application?

(2) Are there gaps in the entire service lifecycle (deployment/instantiatio=
n/selection) that are not currently being addressed and that are relevant?

(3) Would it make sense to have a common set of communication and compute m=
etrics to address the various lifecycle stages?

On #1, this is already happening. As mentioned by Luis, the Linux CAMARA pr=
oject is building APIs to expose such information. For instance, the CAMARA=
 Edge Cloud develops service APIs to "reserve compute resources within the =
operator network" and "influence the traffic routing from the user device t=
oward the Edge instance of the Application". Related to CAMARA, there is al=
so the GSMA Open Gateway initiative, which aims to provide access to operat=
or networks for application developers. Another example is 3GPP NEF, which =
aims to enable exchange of information to/from an external application in a=
 controlled and secure way. These solutions are finding ad hoc ways to extr=
act this information. We think there is a need to get a more coordinated/st=
ructured way to access this information from the network infrastructure sid=
e.

On #2, there are gaps in the deployment and service instance selection stan=
dpoint. Thanks to CATS, the IETF is now covering the problem of how the net=
work edge can steer traffic between clients of a service and sites offering=
 the service within the network. But there is also a need to (1) cover the =
service deployment stage within the service lifecycle and (2) to support th=
e application side (in addition to the edge nodes within the network covere=
d by CATS).

On #3, it has been argued in this thread that different stages of the lifec=
ycle may need distinct metrics. It seems to me though that there is a need =
to have a holistic approach and that a common set of metrics are applicable=
 to all stages (although a stage might have additional metrics specific for=
 it). An analogy we are used to understand might help here. The two key ser=
vice lifecycle stages (service deployment and service selection) are equiva=
lent to the two main lifecycle stages of a communication network: (1) "capa=
city planning" and (2) "traffic engineering". Capacity planning deals with =
provisioning the right disposition of resources (say for example bandwidth =
and latency) to provide a communication service to a set of users. Once the=
se resources are deployed, traffic engineering kicks in, which deals with h=
ow these resources (the same bandwidth and latency provisioned in the first=
 stage) are utilized. These are distinct stages in the lifecycle, but they =
deal with the same core metrics (bw and latency). It is important that thes=
e metrics are defined taking the whole lifecycle into account, to ensure th=
at the second stage in the lifecycle makes decisions based on metrics that =
are aligned with the resources deployed in the first stage.

Thanks,
Jordi
________________________________
From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2023 22:37
To: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.c=
om>; Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com>; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@f=
uturewei.com>; cats@ietf.org <cats@ietf.org>; alto@ietf.org <alto@ietf.org>
Cc: idr@ietf.org <idr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and comput=
e information


WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of =
any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

It is not obvious to me that the metrics for service placement are at all t=
ied to the metrics for isntance selection for client traffic.  For example,=
 service placement may want to know about the capacity and type details of =
the physical server.  Client traffic direction generally does not acre abou=
t that.

Similarly, service placement may well want to know about the range of possi=
ble resource consumption (e.g. memory) that the application server instance=
 may exhibit.  Client traffic direction does not care, as long as the hosti=
ng server is giving the application service the resources it needs.

Conversely, client service instance likely cares about the current latency =
under load of the service instance.  Service placement doesn't care about t=
hat as the service is not yet under load.

There are many more examples of differences in concern.

I can imagine that there are metrics that both care about, but most of the =
ones I can see to start from are quite distinct.

Yours,

Joel

On 11/2/2023 5:31 PM, LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO wrote:

Hi Joel, all,



Please, see in-line



Best regards



Luis



De: Cats <cats-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:cats-bounces@ietf.org> En nombre de=
 Joel Halpern
Enviado el: jueves, 2 de noviembre de 2023 19:04
Para: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com><mailto:jros@qti.qualcomm.com=
>; Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com><mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.=
com>; cats@ietf.org<mailto:cats@ietf.org>; alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.o=
rg>
CC: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and compute=
 information



There are, as far as I can tell, two very valid and very different approach=
es to service selection / traffic direction.

[[Luis>]] service selection / traffic direction is a part of the problem. A=
 previous step is service / application instantiation. What we claim is the=
 convenience of defining compute-related metrics suitable for both (and any=
 other step in the service lifecycle that could require such kind of metric=
s). Defining separated metrics could lead to inconsistent approaches. A com=
mon set of metrics that could be used for different purposes would be desir=
able.



It can be done by the application, or it can be done by the operator edge. =
 CATS is chartered to address the operator-based approach.  Applications cl=
early can chose to make their own decision, or to send anycast traffic allo=
wing CATS to make its decision.



However, expecting the network to expose detailed topology and related metr=
ics to end application clients seems unlikely.

[[Luis>]] Exposing information from network side is becoming an industrial =
trend in order to benefit the service delivery and experience by customers =
(e.g. Linux CAMARA project). Closer interaction among applications and netw=
orks is desirable.



Which is why most applications have taken the approach of using their own p=
robes to make their decisions.

[[Luis>]] The applications following that approach infer the status of the =
network for taking decisions. Though proper exposure mechanisms the applica=
tions could take informed decisions in a more precise manner than the infer=
ence, which will be certainly beneficial. However this discussion separates=
 from the topic of the draft (common definition of compute metrics), so may=
be better discuss in a thread apart.



  If you want to argue for a protocol to expose information to client appli=
cations, that is a very complicated discussion with many stakeholders.  And=
 it is a discussion that needs to take place before one discusses exact met=
rics, or even the properties of such an exposure mechanism.  (It is an appr=
oach much closer to ALTO than to CATS.)



Yours,

Joel



On 11/2/2023 1:45 PM, Jordi Ros Giralt wrote:

Thanks Linda for your comments. Find my responses below:



> Your draft describes two aspects of the service performance

> impacted by the Computing: Service Deployment and  Service (Path)

> Selection. Those two should be separated, as the Service Deployment

> belongs to the OpsArea, and the Service selection (including Network

> Path & DCs that host the services) belongs to the Routing area.



[JRG] I agree that service deployment can be seen as part of ops area. Serv=
ice selection can both be seen as part of the routing area (as you point ou=
t), but also a part of the application area. For instance, an application r=
unning in a UE could decide whether to use 5G, 4G, or Wi-Fi to connect to a=
 service instance based on the communication and compute resource informati=
on exposed to it.



> draft-ietf-idr-5g-edge-service-metadata has proposed a new Metadata Path

> Attribute and some Sub-TLVs  for egress routers to advertise the Metadata

> about the attached edge services (ES).

> (...) Can this Metadata Path Attribute address the problem stated in your=
 draft?



[JRG] I agree this information is valuable to the ingress router to make pa=
th selection decisions. In addition, there is also a need for this informat=
ion to be exposed to the service or application layer. If there is service =
replication, the application running in the UE (or an application-layer pro=
xy on behalf of it) needs to decide which of the service replicas it connec=
ts to. Once a service replica is selected, the UE might also have a variety=
 of ways to reach that service (e.g., 4G, 5G, Wi-Fi). Both of these end-poi=
nt selection decisions need to know the available communication and compute=
 resources.



Thanks,

Jordi











________________________________

From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com><mailto:linda.dunbar@futurew=
ei.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 18:11
To: Jordi Ros Giralt <jros@qti.qualcomm.com><mailto:jros@qti.qualcomm.com>;=
 cats@ietf.org<mailto:cats@ietf.org> <cats@ietf.org><mailto:cats@ietf.org>;=
 alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org> <alto@ietf.org><mailto:alto@ietf.org>
Cc: idr@ietf.org<mailto:idr@ietf.org> <idr@ietf.org><mailto:idr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: New draft on joint exposure of network and compute information



WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of =
any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Jordi,



Your draft describes two aspects of the service performance impacted by the=
 Computing: Service Deployment and  Service (Path) Selection. Those two sho=
uld be separated, as the Service Deployment belongs to the OpsArea, and the=
 Service selection (including Network Path & DCs that host the services) be=
longs to the Routing area.



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-5g-edge-service-metadata/ h=
as proposed a new Metadata Path Attribute and some Sub-TLVs  for egress rou=
ters to advertise the Metadata about the attached edge  services (ES).  The=
 Edge Service Metadata can be used by the ingress routers in the 5G Local D=
ata Network to make path selections not only based on the routing cost but =
also the running environment of the edge services.  The goal is to improve =
latency and performance for 5G  edge services.





Can this Metadata Path Attribute address the problem stated in your draft? =
 I CC=92ed the IDR WG, so your comments on the Path Selection can be visibl=
e to them.



Thanks, Linda





From: Cats <cats-bounces@ietf.org><mailto:cats-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf =
Of Jordi Ros Giralt
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 6:47 AM
To: cats@ietf.org<mailto:cats@ietf.org>; alto@ietf.org<mailto:alto@ietf.org=
>
Subject: [Cats] New draft on joint exposure of network and compute informat=
ion



Dear CATS and ALTO WG mailing list members,



We submitted a new draft on joint exposure of network and compute informati=
on for service placement and selection: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-rcr-opsawg-operational-compute-metrics/




Joint Exposure of Network and Compute Information for Infrastructure-Aware =
Service DeploymentJoint Exposure of Network and Compute Information for Inf=
rastructure-Aware Service Deployment

This draft focuses on the problem of exposing both network and compute info=
rmation to the service provider/application to support service placement an=
d selection decisions. ALTO provides an interface for network information e=
xposure to the service provider/application; thus, an approach is to levera=
ge and extend it with compute metrics. CATS also needs to develop compute m=
etrics to support traffic steering decisions. The common ground is in these=
 compute metrics, which could be reused across the various use cases (e.g.,=
 consumed by the network as in CATS or consumed by the application as in AL=
TO).



This draft also aims at providing a framework for continuing the discussion=
 initiated during IETF 117 regarding the presentation "Compute-aware metric=
s: CATS working with ALTO": https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-117-alt=
o-compute-aware-metrics-cats-working-with-alto/



We would like to seek feedback from both working groups on developing compu=
te metrics that can be reused for different use cases, to avoid duplicated =
work and increase the effectiveness of future standards.



Thanks,

Jordi







_______________________________________________

Idr mailing list

Idr@ietf.org<mailto:Idr@ietf.org>

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr

________________________________

Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu=
ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus=
ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind=
icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o=
 copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=
=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo =
comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is confidential and privileg=
ed information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are=
 hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co=
mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission =
in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you h=
ave received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio=
, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex=
clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des=
tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, div=
ulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode estar proibida em virtude=
 da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe =
que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destru=
i=E7=E3o
________________________________

Le informamos de que el responsable del tratamiento de sus datos es la enti=
dad del Grupo Telef=F3nica vinculada al remitente, con la finalidad de mant=
ener el contacto profesional y gestionar la relaci=F3n establecida con el d=
estinatario o con la entidad a la que est=E1 vinculado. Puede contactar con=
 el responsable del tratamiento y ejercitar sus derechos escribiendo a priv=
acidad.web@telefonica.com<mailto:privacidad.web@telefonica.com>. Puede cons=
ultar informaci=F3n adicional sobre el tratamiento de sus datos en nuestra =
Pol=EDtica de Privacidad<https://www.telefonica.com/es/telefonica-politica-=
de-privacidad-de-terceros/>.

We inform you that the data controller is the Telef=F3nica Group entity lin=
ked to the sender, for the purpose of maintaining professional contact and =
managing the relationship established with the recipient or with the entity=
 to which it is linked. You may contact the data controller and exercise yo=
ur rights by writing to privacidad.web@telefonica.com<mailto:privacidad.web=
@telefonica.com>. You may consult additional information on the processing =
of your data in our Privacy Policy<https://www.telefonica.com/en/wp-content=
/uploads/sites/5/2022/12/Telefonica-Third-data-subjects-Privacy-Policy.pdf>=
.

Informamos que o respons=E1vel pelo tratamento dos seus dados =E9 a entidad=
e do Grupo Telef=F3nica vinculada ao remetente, a fim de manter o contato p=
rofessional e administrar a rela=E7=E3o estabelecida com o destinat=E1rio o=
u com a entidade =E0 qual esteja vinculado. Voc=EA pode entrar em contato c=
om o respons=E1vel do tratamento de dados e exercer os seus direitos escrev=
endo a privacidad.web@telefonica.com<mailto:privacidad.web@telefonica.com>.=
 Voc=EA pode consultar informa=E7=E3o adicional sobre o tratamento do seus =
dados na nossa Pol=EDtica de Privacidade<https://www.telefonica.com/es/poli=
tica-de-privacidade-de-terceiros/>.

--_000_SN6PR02MB5375996503565402FB71E16AF6ABASN6PR02MB5375namp_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
252">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"elementToProof"><span style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-f=
amily: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -app=
le-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-ser=
if; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Thanks
 all.</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I
 am summarizing some of the key questions that are emanating from the conve=
rsations below and that I think are important to discuss. I am also includi=
ng my thoughts.</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">(1)
 Is it likely that the network can expose communication and compute informa=
tion to the service provider and application?</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">(2)
 Are there gaps in the entire service lifecycle (deployment/instantiation/s=
election) that are not currently being addressed and that are relevant?</sp=
an></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">(3)
 Would it make sense to have a common set of communication and compute metr=
ics to address the various lifecycle stages?</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: &quot;Segoe UI Web (West European)=
&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, Roboto, &q=
uot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);">On
 #1, this is already happening. As mentioned by Luis, the Linux CAMARA proj=
ect is building APIs to expose such information. For instance, the CAMARA E=
dge Cloud develops service APIs to &quot;reserve compute resources within t=
he operator network&quot; and &quot;influence the
 traffic routing from the user device toward the Edge instance of the Appli=
cation&quot;. Related to CAMARA, there is also the GSMA Open Gateway initia=
tive, which aims to provide access to operator networks for application dev=
elopers. Another example is 3GPP NEF,
 which aims to enable&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; fo=
nt-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida, sans-serif; font-size: 12p=
t; font-weight: 500; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); background-color: rgb(255, =
255, 255);">exchange of information to/from
 an external application in a controlled and secure way. These solutions ar=
e finding ad hoc ways to extract this information. We think there is a need=
 to get a more coordinated/structured way to access this information from t=
he network infrastructure side.</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 500; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 500; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">On
 #2, there are gaps in the deployment and service instance selection standp=
oint. Thanks to CATS, the IETF is now covering&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"l=
etter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida, s=
ans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); ba=
ckground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">the
 problem of how the network edge can steer traffic between clients of a ser=
vice and sites offering the service within the network. But there is also a=
 need to (1) cover the service deployment stage within the service lifecycl=
e and (2) to support the application
 side (in addition to the edge nodes within the network covered by CATS).</=
span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">On
 #3, it has been argued in this thread that different stages of the lifecyc=
le may need distinct metrics. It seems to me though that there is a need to=
 have a holistic approach and that a common set of metrics are applicable t=
o all stages (although a stage might
 have additional metrics specific for it). An analogy we are used to unders=
tand might help here. The two key service lifecycle stages (service deploym=
ent and service selection) are equivalent to the two main lifecycle stages =
of a communication network: (1)
 &quot;capacity planning&quot; and (2) &quot;traffic engineering&quot;. Cap=
acity planning deals with provisioning the right disposition of resources (=
say for example bandwidth and latency) to provide a communication service t=
o a set of users. Once these resources are deployed,
 traffic engineering kicks in, which deals with how these resources (the sa=
me&nbsp;bandwidth and latency provisioned in the first stage) are utilized.=
 These are distinct stages in the lifecycle, but they deal with the same co=
re metrics (bw and latency). It is important
 that these metrics are defined taking the whole lifecycle into account, to=
 ensure that the second stage in the lifecycle makes decisions based on met=
rics that are aligned with the resources deployed in the first stage.</span=
></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;"><span style=
=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, Arial, Luci=
da, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(102, 102, 102=
); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Thanks,</span></div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; text-align: left; margin: 0px;" class=3D"elem=
entToProof">
<span style=3D"letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Montserrat, Helvetica, =
Arial, Lucida, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: 400; color: rgb(10=
2, 102, 102); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Jordi</span></div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Joel Halpern &lt;jmh@=
joelhalpern.com&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 2, 2023 22:37<br>
<b>To:</b> LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO &lt;luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@te=
lefonica.com&gt;; Jordi Ros Giralt &lt;jros@qti.qualcomm.com&gt;; Linda Dun=
bar &lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt;; cats@ietf.org &lt;cats@ietf.org&gt;=
; alto@ietf.org &lt;alto@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> idr@ietf.org &lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and=
 compute information</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"text-align:center"><span style=3D"background-color:#ffff00; fon=
t-size:14px; font-family:sans-serif; color:#000000"><strong>WARNING:</stron=
g> This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any li=
nks or attachments, and do not enable
 macros.</span></p>
<div>
<p>It is not obvious to me that the metrics for service placement are at al=
l tied to the metrics for isntance selection for client traffic.&nbsp; For =
example, service placement may want to know about the capacity and type det=
ails of the physical server.&nbsp; Client
 traffic direction generally does not acre about that.</p>
<p>Similarly, service placement may well want to know about the range of po=
ssible resource consumption (e.g. memory) that the application server insta=
nce may exhibit.&nbsp; Client traffic direction does not care, as long as t=
he hosting server is giving the application
 service the resources it needs.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
</p>
<p>Conversely, client service instance likely cares about the current laten=
cy under load of the service instance.&nbsp; Service placement doesn't care=
 about that as the service is not yet under load.</p>
<p>There are many more examples of differences in concern.<br>
</p>
<p>I can imagine that there are metrics that both care about, but most of t=
he ones I can see to start from are quite distinct.</p>
<p>Yours,</p>
<p>Joel<br>
</p>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 11/2/2023 5:31 PM, LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERA=
S MURILLO wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
@font-face
	{font-family:"Cambria Math"}
@font-face
	{font-family:Calibri}
@font-face
	{font-family:Aptos}
@font-face
	{font-family:Consolas}
@font-face
	{font-family:"Segoe UI"}
p.x_MsoNormal, li.x_MsoNormal, div.x_MsoNormal
	{margin:0cm;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif}
h1
	{margin-right:0cm;
	margin-left:0cm;
	font-size:24.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	font-weight:bold}
a:link, span.x_MsoHyperlink
	{color:blue;
	text-decoration:underline}
pre
	{margin:0cm;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Courier New"}
p.x_elementtoproof, li.x_elementtoproof, div.x_elementtoproof
	{margin:0cm;
	font-size:11.0pt;
	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif}
span.x_Ttulo1Car
	{font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;
	color:#2F5496}
span.x_HTMLconformatoprevioCar
	{font-family:Consolas}
span.x_EstiloCorreo23
	{font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
	color:windowtext}
.x_MsoChpDefault
	{font-size:10.0pt}
div.x_WordSection1
	{}
-->
</style>
<div class=3D"x_WordSection1">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Hi Joel, all,</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Please, see in-line</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Best regards</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Luis</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">&nbsp;</span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b>De:</b> Cats <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396=
E" href=3D"mailto:cats-bounces@ietf.org">
&lt;cats-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> <b>En nombre de </b>Joel Halpern<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> jueves, 2 de noviembre de 2023 19:04<br>
<b>Para:</b> Jordi Ros Giralt <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=3D"=
mailto:jros@qti.qualcomm.com">
&lt;jros@qti.qualcomm.com&gt;</a>; Linda Dunbar <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-=
rfc2396E" href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">
&lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.com&gt;</a>; <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-abbrevia=
ted" href=3D"mailto:cats@ietf.org">
cats@ietf.org</a>; <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:a=
lto@ietf.org">
alto@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>CC:</b> <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.=
org">idr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [Cats] [Idr] New draft on joint exposure of network and =
compute information</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
<p>There are, as far as I can tell, two very valid and very different appro=
aches to service selection / traffic direction.&nbsp;
</p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">[[Luis&gt;]] service selection / traffic dire=
ction is a part of the problem. A previous step is service / application in=
stantiation. What we claim is the convenience of defining compute-related m=
etrics suitable for both (and any other
 step in the service lifecycle that could require such kind of metrics). De=
fining separated metrics could lead to inconsistent approaches. A common se=
t of metrics that could be used for different purposes would be desirable.<=
/span></i></b></p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></i></b></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US">It can be done by the application, or it can be don=
e by the operator edge.&nbsp;
</span>CATS is chartered to address the operator-based approach.&nbsp; Appl=
ications clearly can chose to make their own decision, or to send anycast t=
raffic allowing CATS to make its decision.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>However, expecting the network to expose detailed topology and related m=
etrics to end application clients seems unlikely.&nbsp;
</p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">[[Luis&gt;]] Exposing information from networ=
k side is becoming an industrial trend in order to benefit the service deli=
very and experience by customers (e.g. Linux CAMARA project). Closer intera=
ction among applications and networks
 is desirable. &nbsp;</span></i></b></p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></i></b></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US">Which is why most applications have taken the appro=
ach of using their own probes to make their decisions.</span></p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">[[Luis&gt;]] The applications following that =
approach infer the status of the network for taking decisions. Though prope=
r exposure mechanisms the applications could take informed decisions in a m=
ore precise manner than the inference,
 which will be certainly beneficial. However this discussion separates from=
 the topic of the draft (common definition of compute metrics), so maybe be=
tter discuss in a thread apart.
</span></i></b></p>
<p><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></i></b></p>
<p><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; If you want to argue for a protocol to expos=
e information to client applications, that is a very complicated discussion=
 with many stakeholders.&nbsp;
</span>And it is a discussion that needs to take place before one discusses=
 exact metrics, or even the properties of such an exposure mechanism.&nbsp;=
 (It is an approach much closer to ALTO than to CATS.)</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Yours,</p>
<p>Joel</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">On 11/2/2023 1:45 PM, Jordi Ros Giralt wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">Thanks Linda for your comments. Find =
my responses below:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black">&gt;&nbsp;Your dr=
aft describes two aspects of the service performance&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt; </span>
<span style=3D"color:black">impacted by the Computing: Service Deployment a=
nd &nbsp;Service (Path)&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt; </span>
<span style=3D"color:black">Selection. Those two should be separated, as th=
e Service Deployment&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt; </span>
<span style=3D"color:black">belongs to the OpsArea, and the Service selecti=
on (including Network&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt; </span>
<span style=3D"color:black">Path &amp; DCs that host the services) belongs =
to the Routing area.</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">[JRG] I agree that service deployment=
 can be seen as part of ops area. Service selection can both be seen as par=
t of the routing area (as you point out), but
 also a part of the application area. For instance, an application running =
in a UE could decide whether to use 5G, 4G, or Wi-Fi to connect to a servic=
e instance based on the communication and compute resource information expo=
sed to it.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=
&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;
</span><span style=3D"color:black; background:white">draft-ietf-idr-5g-edge=
-service-metadata has proposed a new Metadata Path&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt;&nbsp;Attribute and some Sub-TLVs&nbsp; for egress routers to advertis=
e the Metadata&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black; background:white"=
>&gt;&nbsp;about the attached edge services (ES).&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:=
&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&gt;&nbsp;(...)
</span><span style=3D"color:black">Can this Metadata Path Attribute address=
 the problem stated in your draft?&nbsp;</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black">[JRG] I agree thi=
s information is valuable to the ingress router to make path selection deci=
sions. In addition, there is also a need for this information to be exposed=
 to the service or application layer.
 If there is service replication, the application running in the UE (or an =
application-layer proxy on behalf of it) needs to decide which of the servi=
ce replicas it connects to. Once a service replica is selected, the UE migh=
t also have a variety of ways to
 reach that service (e.g., 4G, 5G, Wi-Fi). Both of these end-point selectio=
n decisions need to know the available communication and compute resources.=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black">Thanks,</span></p=
>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><span style=3D"color:black">Jordi</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font=
-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot=
;Aptos&quot;,sans-serif; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr width=3D"98%" size=3D"2" align=3D"center">
</div>
<div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:black">From:</span></b><sp=
an style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;Linda Dunbar
<a href=3D"mailto:linda.dunbar@futurewei.com">&lt;linda.dunbar@futurewei.co=
m&gt;</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Wednesday, November 1, 2023 18:11<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;Jordi Ros Giralt <a href=3D"mailto:jros@qti.qualcomm.com">&=
lt;jros@qti.qualcomm.com&gt;</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:cats@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">cats@iet=
f.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:cats@ietf.org">
&lt;cats@ietf.org&gt;</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:alto@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-=
txt-link-freetext">
alto@ietf.org</a> <a href=3D"mailto:alto@ietf.org">&lt;alto@ietf.org&gt;</a=
><br>
<b>Cc:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fre=
etext">idr@ietf.org</a>
<a href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">&lt;idr@ietf.org&gt;</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;RE: New draft on joint exposure of network and compute=
 information</span>
</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<p align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><b><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt; font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; color:black; background:=
yellow">WARNING:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt; font-family:&qu=
ot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif; color:black; background:yellow">&nbsp;This
 email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any links or =
attachments, and do not enable macros.</span></p>
<p>Jordi,</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Your draft describes two aspects of the service performance impacted by =
the Computing: Service Deployment and &nbsp;Service (Path) Selection. Those=
 two should be separated, as the Service Deployment belongs to the OpsArea,=
 and the Service selection (including
 Network Path &amp; DCs that host the services) belongs to the Routing area=
.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_elementtoproof"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-idr-5g-edge-service-metadata/" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">=
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-5g-edge-service-metadata/</=
a>&nbsp;has proposed a new Metadata Path Attribute
 and some Sub-TLVs&nbsp; for egress routers to advertise the Metadata about=
 the attached edge&nbsp; services (ES).&nbsp; The Edge Service Metadata can=
 be used by the ingress routers in the 5G Local Data Network to
<span style=3D"color:black; background:yellow">make path selections not onl=
y based on the routing cost but also the running environment of the edge se=
rvices.&nbsp; The goal is to improve latency and performance for 5G &nbsp;e=
dge services.</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Can this Metadata Path Attribute address the problem stated in your draf=
t?&nbsp; I CC=92ed the IDR WG, so your comments on the Path Selection can b=
e visible to them.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Thanks, Linda</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm">
<p><b>From:</b>&nbsp;Cats <a href=3D"mailto:cats-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;cats=
-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jordi Ros Giralt<br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Tuesday, October 24, 2023 6:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:cats@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext">cats@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:alto@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">alto@iet=
f.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[Cats] New draft on joint exposure of network and comp=
ute information</p>
</div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">Dear CATS and ALTO WG mailing list members,</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-ser=
if; color:black; font-weight:normal">We submitted a new draft on joint expo=
sure of network and compute information for service placement and selection=
:
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rcr-opsawg-operational-co=
mpute-metrics/" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-rcr-opsawg-operational-compute-metri=
cs/</a></span></h1>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt; font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-s=
erif; color:#212529; font-weight:normal">&nbsp;</span></h1>
<h1><span style=3D"font-size:1.0pt; font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-s=
erif; color:#212529; font-weight:normal">Joint Exposure of Network and Comp=
ute Information for Infrastructure-Aware Service DeploymentJoint Exposure o=
f Network and Compute Information for Infrastructure-Aware
 Service Deployment</span></h1>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">This draft focuses on the problem of exposing both network =
and compute information to the service provider/application to support serv=
ice placement and selection decisions. ALTO
 provides an interface for network information exposure to the service prov=
ider/application; thus, an approach is to leverage and extend it with compu=
te metrics. CATS also needs to develop compute metrics to support traffic s=
teering decisions. The common ground
 is in these compute metrics, which could be reused across the various use =
cases (e.g., consumed by the network as in CATS or consumed by the applicat=
ion as in ALTO).</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">This draft also aims at providing a framework for continuin=
g the discussion initiated during IETF 117 regarding the presentation &quot=
;Compute-aware metrics: CATS working with ALTO&quot;:
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-117-alto-compute-aware-m=
etrics-cats-working-with-alto/" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-117-alto-compute-aware-metrics-cats=
-working-with-alto/</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">We would like to seek feedback from both working groups on =
developing compute metrics that can be reused for different use cases, to a=
void duplicated work and increase the effectiveness
 of future standards.</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">Thanks,</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt; font-family:&quot;Aptos&quot;,sans-seri=
f; color:black">Jordi&nbsp;</span></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">&nbsp;</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre>Idr mailing list</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:Idr@ietf.org" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">Idr@=
ietf.org</a></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr" class=3D"x_moz-t=
xt-link-freetext">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr</a></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<hr>
<font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial" color=3D"Gray"><br>
Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu=
ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus=
ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind=
icado, queda notificado de que la
 lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede e=
star prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este m=
ensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta m=
isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.<br>
<br>
The information contained in this transmission is confidential and privileg=
ed information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named =
above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are=
 hereby notified that any dissemination,
 distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y=
ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia=
tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error=
 and then delete it.<br>
<br>
Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio=
, pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex=
clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des=
tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a
 leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o p=
ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me=
nsagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mes=
ma via e proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o<br>
</font>
<div class=3D"x_MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><sp=
an style=3D"">
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"2" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:7.5pt; font-family:&quot;=
Arial&quot;,sans-serif; color:gray"><br>
Le informamos de que el responsable del tratamiento de sus datos es la enti=
dad del Grupo Telef=F3nica vinculada al remitente, con la finalidad de mant=
ener el contacto profesional y gestionar la relaci=F3n establecida con el d=
estinatario o con la entidad a la que
 est=E1 vinculado. Puede contactar con el responsable del tratamiento y eje=
rcitar sus derechos escribiendo a
<a href=3D"mailto:privacidad.web@telefonica.com" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext">privacidad.web@telefonica.com</a>. Puede consultar informaci=F3n ad=
icional sobre el tratamiento de sus datos en nuestra
<a href=3D"https://www.telefonica.com/es/telefonica-politica-de-privacidad-=
de-terceros/">
Pol=EDtica de Privacidad</a>.<br>
<br>
We inform you that the data controller is the Telef=F3nica Group entity lin=
ked to the sender, for the purpose of maintaining professional contact and =
managing the relationship established with the recipient or with the entity=
 to which it is linked. You may contact
 the data controller and exercise your rights by writing to <a href=3D"mail=
to:privacidad.web@telefonica.com" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-freetext">
privacidad.web@telefonica.com</a>. You may consult additional information o=
n the processing of your data in our
<a href=3D"https://www.telefonica.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2022/12=
/Telefonica-Third-data-subjects-Privacy-Policy.pdf">
Privacy Policy</a>.<br>
<br>
Informamos que o respons=E1vel pelo tratamento dos seus dados =E9 a entidad=
e do Grupo Telef=F3nica vinculada ao remetente, a fim de manter o contato p=
rofessional e administrar a rela=E7=E3o estabelecida com o destinat=E1rio o=
u com a entidade =E0 qual esteja vinculado. Voc=EA
 pode entrar em contato com o respons=E1vel do tratamento de dados e exerce=
r os seus direitos escrevendo a
<a href=3D"mailto:privacidad.web@telefonica.com" class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fr=
eetext">privacidad.web@telefonica.com</a>. Voc=EA pode consultar informa=E7=
=E3o adicional sobre o tratamento do seus dados na nossa
<a href=3D"https://www.telefonica.com/es/politica-de-privacidade-de-terceir=
os/">Pol=EDtica de Privacidade</a>.<br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_SN6PR02MB5375996503565402FB71E16AF6ABASN6PR02MB5375namp_--

