Re: [Anima-bootstrap] DRAFT minutes from past three meetings

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 17 October 2016 21:32 UTC

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To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, anima-bootstrap <anima-bootstrap@ietf.org>
References: <16867.1476714344@obiwan.sandelman.ca>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2016 10:32:34 +1300
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Subject: Re: [Anima-bootstrap] DRAFT minutes from past three meetings
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On 18/10/2016 03:25, Michael Richardson wrote:
...
> 1. Section 3.2 (proxy behavior) updated to indicate use of GRASP to find
>    Registrar.  This might require GRASP objective for registrar discovery be
>    added. Could be defined in the bootstrap document.
>    Provide any guidance re GRASP options so that implementation is clear.

Yep. We definitely have to specify the objective.

objective = ["AN_registrar", objective-flags, loop-count, [radius, priority, weight, method]]

This is explained in https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/graspy/brski/README.txt
But you guys need to decide if that's what you want; I defined it following
input from Toerless about making it mDNS-equivalent.

...
> 3. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-03#section-3.1.1
> does not specify a GRASP mechanism for proxy discovery, should it?
>   max feels, "no" because defining an insecure mode of GRASP is difficult.
>   mcr feels, "no" because discovery by multicast UDP but replys are by TCP
>       which means the new node needs to open a TCP port to get a reply back. We
>       just had a long conversation about TCP/UDP etc (re flipping the handshake)
>       and this adds more confusion.
>   group conclusion: close this. "No". (agreement on the call is noted; with
>         toerless voting for grasp but accepting the group decision)

No consensus from me :-). This conclusion applies for non-GRASP-capable devices.
For GRASP-capable devices, specifically pledges that will shortly join the ACP,
there is no difficulty with the flip to TCP. The grasp -07 text is broken on this,
but I have corrected text and running code. We already figured out the insecure
mode of GRASP too (already in the -07 text). In fact the proxy ASA itself can
enforce the necessary regime (loop count of 1 and use of link-local addresses).
Up and running at https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/graspy/brski/.

If you are joining the ACP you can be strictly GRASP-only, with *our*
security fences. I see that as more secure than mDNS.

Rgds
   Brian