Return-Path: X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFF751200B8; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id be7ao2JW0xAZ; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 762EA120048; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 23:33:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8235; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1572330810; x=1573540410; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=E3hCIsvtt3jec9PGtC3hq/RSsvQtcDHTTJF945Jer/0=; b=ZNDrDsehR/VT9WIZg1YUeJ3pXo9SFQT8FkwcOKcd4Kck9xqdnhwEyYvy /jiAHZaSQ5z0+jb6+tBTEvNUfKXi2SOEpo/hu2iOJr1QQcTWJpUAfj+59 6hr26Gdj3USDxdoxu08pF8BipL3R7QaqZmpa8agI3ZOvjeO2rLs51jUeK Q=; X-Files: signature.asc : 488 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CcAAD03Ldd/xbLJq1lDgsBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAREBAQEBAQEBAQEBAYF7gRyCRAEgEiqNK4duJYcyi1iICgI?= =?us-ascii?q?HAQEBCQMBAS8BAYRAAoNwOBMCAwkBAQQBAQECAQUEbYVDhVEBAQEDAXkFCws?= =?us-ascii?q?YIwtXBhODIgGCVyCwGYInhU6EcBCBNoFTilSBf4E4DBOCTD6IB4IsBJY2lzK?= =?us-ascii?q?CLoIzgRORaBuOHIs+pHGDFgIEBgUCFYFpIiqBLjMaCBsVZQGCQT4SEBSDPo1?= =?us-ascii?q?TPEADMJAbAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.68,243,1569283200"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="18559777" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 29 Oct 2019 06:33:01 +0000 Received: from [10.61.202.222] ([10.61.202.222]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x9T6X0ub019867 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:33:00 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <521DE6A8-0839-4D52-AB9F-7F6717AFA5DB@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1DFD681E-0CD9-49F4-8762-4E0A340016F8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 07:32:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20191029031843.GO69013@kduck.mit.edu> Cc: Michael Richardson , draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, tte+ietf@cs.fau.de, anima-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG , anima@ietf.org To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <157132132983.10248.1050846253932775557.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20191018012352.GB43312@kduck.mit.edu> <22000.1572299410@localhost> <20191029031843.GO69013@kduck.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.202.222, [10.61.202.222] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Anima] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-28: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 06:33:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1DFD681E-0CD9-49F4-8762-4E0A340016F8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C9263BA-2AC1-490F-8B3B-395947EFA70C" --Apple-Mail=_5C9263BA-2AC1-490F-8B3B-395947EFA70C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, > On 29 Oct 2019, at 04:18, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: >=20 > I mean, we literally say "Reducing the possibility of this is why the > pledge is mandated to generate a strong random or pseudo-random number > nonce." So to also say "the nonce [...] does not require a strong > cryptographic randomness" seems to be in conflict with the former > statement. > Are you saying that "strong random" and "strong cryptographic random" = mean > different things, or am I misreading the document in some other way? I would just drop the statement. The whole point of the nonce is to = prevent replay attacks, so why would we want to weaken that? Eliot --Apple-Mail=_5C9263BA-2AC1-490F-8B3B-395947EFA70C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi,

On 29 Oct 2019, at 04:18, Benjamin Kaduk = <kaduk@mit.edu> = wrote:

I mean, we literally say = "Reducing the possibility of this is why the
pledge is mandated to generate a = strong random or pseudo-random number
nonce."  So to also say "the nonce [...] does not = require a strong
cryptographic randomness" seems to be in conflict with the = former
statement.
Are you saying that "strong random" and "strong cryptographic = random" mean
different = things, or am I misreading the document in some other = way?


I would just drop the statement. =  The whole point of the nonce is to prevent replay attacks, so why = would we want to weaken that?

Eliot
= --Apple-Mail=_5C9263BA-2AC1-490F-8B3B-395947EFA70C-- --Apple-Mail=_1DFD681E-0CD9-49F4-8762-4E0A340016F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmNC9kEYdsJKnsmEdh7ZrRtnSejMFAl233RsACgkQh7ZrRtnS ejO+YggAkx6M4IeB1yA6KKRVZi4yCMOEtq1cqWqakl7027SWRngvAJSgXT7fk95c sL4WElsgOx/JjImd4HrQYOmVe6oSlz3yrmGBtJLla12RbkfvVgb7oXf0zDUMbpEP GImhNFMNwh0tzj3WXGY2Zs3H1/1Jo66QSCiFOFgCzGnm96dSqXjaucPWABkGXRMR ykofWg58D+NezACAZEP9F0bE3P+pLTpAFIIScMgJff1iR0ahhw9GrA9R14Laio4G 0Vdhd7xcjDmsjjN8Dp+uAstA9mYN3TS6YAnUm4Y/1AZIEYxpE4SqSQchce+LVJzl s4pGKZOJSeTlG2bNdif8Z4OCjKdf3w== =K8WN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_1DFD681E-0CD9-49F4-8762-4E0A340016F8--