Re: [Anima] "virtual out-of-band" ... or some minor non-ACP-number comments on Action: draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-25.txt

[Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>]

Thanks to everbody chiming in for "virtual out of band" ;-)
I would have hated anything with "overlay", i think Arthur correctly described it with "blind"

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:27:30PM +1200, Brian Carpenter wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> To be clear, I don't feel at all strongly about this. If people accept
> 'virtual out of band', I certainly don't object.
> 
> Regards
>     Brian
>     (via tiny screen & keyboard)
> 
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 18:27 Michael H. Behringer, <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> > I still prefer the definition "virtual out of band".
> >
> > An "overlay" (secure or not) depends on correct configuration of the
> > underlay. The ACP does NOT depend on configuration in the underlay, that
> > is what makes it special.
> >
> > I haven't seen the definition "virtual out of band" anywhere else, and
> > it is the most precise way to describe it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On 30/06/2020 00:06, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> > > Say "secure overlay" to emphasise the point, but yes.
> > >
> > > The draft I submitted yesterday "describes a simple method of forming an
> > ACP immediately above the transport layer" which is indeed precisely a
> > secure overlay.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >     Brian
> > >
> > > On 30-Jun-20 00:45, William Atwood wrote:
> > >> Is "overlay" the right word?
> > >>
> > >> I agree that it is physically in-band, and virtually out-of-band.  Isn't
> > >> that the definition of "overlay"?
> > >>
> > >>    Bill
> > >>
> > >> On 2020-06-28 11:02 p.m., Michael Richardson wrote:
> > >>> Attention This email originates from outside the concordia.ca domain.
> > //
> > >>> Ce courriel provient de l'exterieur du domaine de concordia.ca
> > >>> On 2020-06-23 10:31 p.m., [e-mail] wrote:
> > >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-anima-autonomic-control-plane-25
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> yes, I read the diffs :-)
> > >>>
> > >>> -   This document describes a modular design for a self-forming, self-
> > >>> -   managing and self-protecting ACP, which is a virtual in-band
> > network
> > >>> -   designed to be as independent as possible of configuration,
> > >>>
> > >>> +   This document describes a modular design for a self-forming, self-
> > >>> +   managing and self-protecting ACP, which is a virtual out-of-band
> > >>> +   network designed to be as independent as possible of configuration,
> > >>>
> > >>> This change from being a virtual in-band network to a virtual
> > >>> out-of-band network must have been in response to some comments... It
> > >>> seems a big change in some ways.  I guess it makes this text consistent
> > >>> with the abstract which has said virtual out-of-band for awhile now.
> > >>>
> > >>> But, I do have to wonder if we are creating confusion by claiming that
> > >>> this is an out-of-band mechanism, even though it's really an in-band
> > >>> mechanism.  It's just virtually-out.
> > >>>
> > >>> I actually do want to start a bike-shed issue here?
> > >>> Are we describing ourself wrong?  Maybe there is some portmanteau that
> > >>> would be more accurate?  I think that the above sentence is essentially
> > >>> the elevator pitch for all of ANIMA.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> There is also a bunch of other text that has been added to the
> > >>> Introduction, which I think confuses more than it enlightens.
> > >>> Or at least needs a better copy-edit.
> > >>>
> > >>> A number of other new sections (9.4..) need a copy-edit to fix some
> > >>> missing words.  I will try to help Toerless with that via github.
> > >>>
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