Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but frequently renewed certificates
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sat, 20 March 2021 18:00 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>, Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, LAMPS <spasm@ietf.org>, netconf@ietf.org, anima@ietf.org
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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 14:00:21 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but frequently renewed certificates
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Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote: >> On 18 Mar 2021, at 19:58, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >> >> A pity that EST (and I think SCEP, but I haven't read it all), just returns >> the resulting certificate, and not something more useful, like a JSON dict >> that includes the certificate. >> >> RFC7030 has a 202, Retry-After, which could be used to tell the holder to >> go away and come back later, but the intended use is not to say not now, >> but rather, "I'm working on it". > This is definitely a problem in a number of deployments. One aspect > that people have to deal with is not so much the gross expiry time, but > when it is convenient to take a risk of moving to a new cert. Of > course you’re going to want to make that operation as bullet-proof as > possible, but in some environments they want multiple levels of > resilience. So scheduling does become an issue. > The big question is- who does the scheduling? Is it the end system? > Is it the EST server? Who knows when “convenient” is? Probably the > answer is “both”. It has to be a three phase commit, and it needs to be initiated from the EST server. 1) send out new identities and trust anchors, but continue to initiate with old ones. 2) do a fire drill with new identities, testing responders 3) switch to new identities, mark old identities to be removed I really like the netconf solution. I think that putting the EST server in charge of collecting new CSRs, and delivering new certificates is the right way. I argued for this back when we were doing 6tisch-minimal-security: on a challenged network, a stampeding herd of elephants is very undesireable. I would like brski-async-enroll to consider https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-sztp-csr/?include_text=1 as being the collection protocol between registrar agent and pledge. -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
- [Anima] Long-lived certificates, but frequently r… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [Acme] Long-lived certificates, but f… John Gardiner Myers
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] [Acme] Long-lived certificates, but f… Jacob Hoffman-Andrews
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] [Acme] Long-lived certificate… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Tomas Gustavsson
- Re: [Anima] [Acme] Long-lived certificates, but f… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [Acme] Long-lived certificates, but f… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Russ Housley
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] [Acme] Long-lived certificate… John Gardiner Myers
- Re: [Anima] [lamps] Long-lived certificates, but … Nico Williams