Re: [Anima] RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol (was: Re: IETF 105 mic comments on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol))

Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com> Wed, 11 November 2020 19:12 UTC

Return-Path: <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com>
X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11C743A0E01; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:12:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.589
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, GB_ABOUTYOU=0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tYdtga9ZUMjP; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:12:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam11on2115.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.236.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3F023A0E00; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:12:47 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=GrKtpjo3KpfOfifeUslNCGrWlNtcCSMYB9PPQnte9oSX/9A7yqLYfzyW/0L+Xx25eRelTBIpl09G9Y4K8RRU++IB24aiJmw33iWJNplck23wTjGyGapkf+Oyt//wsbKxMrjUeCQIk7OGL6NmVqI+UW651q587Mq3TFkmIriHjDlE5z4dq8XH4pryFjLVnzMEXwqCGgFuBe+fFMQkvsZbQWlrsGRRZpt0A6PqOILgodTV8PIUupQiCysCDY0YYqM/9BpEd3BG63bEhTmGFSne8LnOvh0XNa8U0AU3ngwgHrSez5CgaY6GXy3E58gM3nBquLmfbehTI1a6uifkP3+4Ug==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NS7hFmaVPuHhquUKUddGKtUoD7sGNJtF6o4z7Jll4mI=; b=LnnhxVdtAGA1Z/j8FgYeta1TzIj8zAo2iiuXor1ces+MxtKyTAVMywDAYXExVZUO/NqbHKDjLRb+THK7tD8c5jtJT+Lc+3X1sstSd5tcCzK2vwBgxJd6swoh53LSiUjMwCMsf363FzolHrp5Z9vt7FSCHbC8cG8cPB7FvbH+GkJzZHhqqaQoDoJ3KL59DKIB/xl0s1VN4rbFEK9qFnOUCe58tORTfCYI+PEoAn2qHwrFt9tRV/ccDVd6iTZES5anKqp0pAdLaK09vtO08oWEJI3GYH9sxmVSbc6o2KCmdkSD/hvCEaK998GoXaG+kqJFwx4emA05dgjo4YcnhBFDNw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=futurewei.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=futurewei.com; dkim=pass header.d=futurewei.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=Futurewei.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NS7hFmaVPuHhquUKUddGKtUoD7sGNJtF6o4z7Jll4mI=; b=X4Sk8NtlSQlNqar781FTOtU2ZdOBzR8BTqtWrqZNnj4GuW0gEklK4EeLezn21rrjskXGk3TOYuDXfJosn00PXUod0kIowMtV0yY8rNjlhSqoZY2dZBKAiuEmjwyDFatVHRNZ2cXXUYyI7rul5qY5XISAIq+o79WeNjuAhh2zALY=
Received: from BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:188::21) by BY5PR13MB3380.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:1ac::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3564.14; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:12:42 +0000
Received: from BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f591:624b:d99a:29d7]) by BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f591:624b:d99a:29d7%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3564.021; Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:12:42 +0000
From: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@futurewei.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org" <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>, =?gb2312?B?s8LLq8H6KCAwMDQxOTMzNSk=?= <chenshuanglong@huawei.com>, "anima-chairs@ietf.org" <anima-chairs@ietf.org>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "anima@ietf.org" <anima@ietf.org>, Guyunan <guyunan@huawei.com>, "rwilton@cisco.com" <rwilton@cisco.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
CC: "rtgwg@ietf.org" <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol (was: Re: IETF 105 mic comments on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol))
Thread-Index: AQHWt4K1tEvOcFNoG0eGD6bOOr7oeanBxb0AgABKI4CAAT1Xhw==
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:12:42 +0000
Message-ID: <BY5PR13MB3048B40988990FE47ED1BF2CE1E80@BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20201110165724.GA42082@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <311b455e-977a-1c54-0d06-89c779f072c6@gmail.com>, <831c7ecf-8afe-4d49-b213-8277f18d0221@Spark>
In-Reply-To: <831c7ecf-8afe-4d49-b213-8277f18d0221@Spark>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com;
x-originating-ip: [2601:646:9500:4d:81e5:eec5:3e94:7810]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 43afe638-a6c4-4c3b-8d30-08d88675c3e8
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR13MB3380:
x-ld-processed: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc,ExtAddr
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BY5PR13MB3380A12FB6ED03CBCCFC2271E1E80@BY5PR13MB3380.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: U8sDgihFd94NagpK0Ipc8PwcsfY7e6kkqI0KQt7qyb5ykR7cuUHftSQS39efTLh2oSnJtFBs6zGR3yxOcF/UllbNqTwoVXPVgALXUCIZrGLkExhh+aibKznITG0uKReYzKLWkUYbjDeCtFEAU4p6i9DMpFHmI4/kuxJgFT6aenrLG2EC6BcRObTN79YBny9n0xVcqvZrJrwOhDOiak+n9RlHMqxAfsx7s54WXcERj8I7CTQFAwAs4jV1VG9B3RXUGd0r6Xbiy7a/9Zl44BCMD4yPfcupiC467zxOhD4q09rV6Qe6dmisBJgMkhSGBNNxZqxC+Rz/QYRXAOuaBASiDh8G8LQJj8QsLBufhSfYX+PQX6f7oiKct0XR7TIQE7G/MVVzDV4AaRNAJZHUlBqFa3Yld2z6IgoLr9CtROqd6CbU9H5tFVWgB8H19ynXK6ib
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(376002)(366004)(39840400004)(136003)(396003)(83380400001)(76116006)(7416002)(33656002)(4326008)(53546011)(44832011)(6506007)(55016002)(52536014)(5660300002)(8676002)(71200400001)(8936002)(9686003)(66446008)(66556008)(66946007)(64756008)(66476007)(9326002)(86362001)(316002)(110136005)(2906002)(186003)(966005)(7696005)(478600001)(921003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY5PR13MB3048B40988990FE47ED1BF2CE1E80BY5PR13MB3048namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY5PR13MB3048.namprd13.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 43afe638-a6c4-4c3b-8d30-08d88675c3e8
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Nov 2020 19:12:42.7899 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: /jlmnM26HTv2OT02jtMb03551Z01Q1zKmNR5gn7BeA3FOu04sZKvI9yerN+5lPnthd0fT9wFpkittP2F198P8g==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3380
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/anima/7GDFZkmpTdXZFNChOugXfzcj9Xk>
Subject: Re: [Anima] RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol (was: Re: IETF 105 mic comments on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol))
X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach <anima.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/anima>, <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/anima/>
List-Post: <mailto:anima@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima>, <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 19:12:50 -0000

Hi Toerless,

We’ll provide you a 20-mins slot in RTGWG Wednesday session. Would you please provide some details/pointers about your presentation? I need to update the agenda with the info so people have time to read up.

Thanks,
Yingzhen
From: rtgwg <rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 4:14 PM
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>de>, rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>rg>, 陈双龙( 00419335) <chenshuanglong@huawei.com>om>, anima-chairs@ietf.org <anima-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>om>, anima@ietf.org <anima@ietf.org>rg>, Guyunan <guyunan@huawei.com>om>, rwilton@cisco.com <rwilton@cisco.com>om>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: rtgwg@ietf.org <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: RTGWG-chairs: slot for RTGWG@109 to present on GRASP ? (was: Re: draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol (was: Re: IETF 105 mic comments on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol))
Toerless,

We will provide a slot, most likely during the 2nd meeting.
Please send an email to RTGWG with a short intro so people who might be interested have the time read up.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Jeff
On Nov 10, 2020, 11:48 AM -0800, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>om>, wrote:

I'd like to underline what Toerless said. I looked at the two use casess
in the protocol-assisted-protocol draft and they seem very easy to
map onto GRASP. I don't really have time before the meeting to do
that but they are certainly use cases we could have included in the
original use case BOF that led to ANIMA.

Regards
Brian Carpenter

On 11-Nov-20 05:57, Toerless Eckert wrote:

In followup to the discuss on draft-li-rtgwg-protocol-assisted-protocol:

Checking RTGWG agenda, it seems you might still have time available,
so if you are interested, i would be happy to whip up a few slides
to five an overview of GRASP and how we imagine it to be useable
to automate operational workflows for various services, including
routing protocols.

Cheers
Toerless

In-Reply-To: <20201110165235.GA17445@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 05:52:35PM +0100, Toerless Eckert wrote:

I see subject draft is again on the agenda of RTGWG'109 and the authors also asked
for a slot to present to ANIMA (which we would be happy to have, time permitting).

Some thoughts as contributor, maybe ANIMA chair:

Reading the draft it looks like a reinvention of the ANIMA GRASP protocol
that we finished almost 3 years ago, but without many of the mechanisms
that make GRASP a well reuseable, easily extensible protocol. So i wonder
why we would want to also do another more imited protocol for the same
goals.

On the mike RTGWG @IETF105, interest was raised to see a more comprehensive
signalling enxchange example. Version 03 of the document seems to have
expanded the BGP example a bit, but still not comprehensive enough for me
to understand if/how this approach would ultimately work.

I would like to encourage the authors to concentrate on fully specifying
intended use-cases - ideally by simply specifying the use-case as
solution using GRASP (we call this GRASP objectives). I am sure
ANIMA participants (including me) would be happy to help explaining how
to specify such a protocol on top of GRASP once we understand the use-case.

Cheers
Toerless

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 11:02:31AM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:

To repeat my comments from the microphone regarding this draft:

We already have per-protocol operational and configuration state via the
IETF yang models for a given protocol.

We also have mechanisms to fetch operational state for such protocols; e.g.
netconf and restconf.

Rather than inventing a new mechanism to do troubleshooting for a protocol,
I'd suggest it makes better sense to augment existing IETF yang models to
include RPCs for interacting with troubleshooting for that protocol.

-- Jeff

_______________________________________________
rtgwg mailing list
rtgwg@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg

--
---
tte@cs.fau.de