Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-22: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Wed, 17 July 2019 08:13 UTC
Return-Path: <eckert@i4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Original-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: anima@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0AE1201D0; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.95
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id waQKRIzg2GXF; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [131.188.34.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4161B12009C; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBCB54800E; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:13:39 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 4DB46440041; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:13:39 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:13:39 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra@ietf.org, Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>, anima-chairs@ietf.org, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Toerless Eckert <tte+ietf@cs.fau.de>, anima@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20190717081339.hr6z3nrzjr4kfipc@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <156282703648.15280.17739830959261983790.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <17580.1562874933@localhost> <ACEB4033-707F-47AF-B58A-5227B444BEAB@cisco.com> <1692.1563030627@localhost> <A85B0B81-842C-4826-BDEB-8A2124F33622@cisco.com> <77BE2D94-9701-417C-9703-BD6727A0FC4B@nostrum.com> <20190716220307.c5ajnwyjgskyjtqk@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <2E629100-DC49-42F2-9DA9-7B8630B537FF@cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <2E629100-DC49-42F2-9DA9-7B8630B537FF@cisco.com>
User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170113 (1.7.2)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/anima/pADnatI-g1jqf-MlqWUxQNiFOl4>
Subject: Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra-22: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: anima@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach <anima.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/anima>, <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/anima/>
List-Post: <mailto:anima@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima>, <mailto:anima-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:13:47 -0000
Definitely. My main point was more about the architecture vs. protocols: originally, ANIMA was chartered to avoid doing architectures, and it reflects in the difficulty to even get the reference model document accepted by our AD (for those who do not remembre). "Create only documents that result in running code". While that latter statement should clearly still be the outcome of further ANIMA work, my experience from the past years is that the structure of the charter 1 documents made it really difficult (impossible) to distinguish between the architecture of a solution and the details of the interoperaability protocols used to implement the architecture. In result, we had problems what to put into voucher, how to duplicate text in Netonf Zero touch and BRSKI and i am not even right now on top of all the IoT variations we may get where there likely will be fever (but some) additions to the architectural model, but more likely a lot more changes on the protocol side. So, i am ot quite sure how to best improve this in the future, but thats why i bring it up as food for thought. Cheers Toerless On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 07:38:25AM +0200, Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Toerless, > > > On 17 Jul 2019, at 00:03, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote: > > > > > > Not sure yet how to best do that, hopefully something we can discuss @105. > > To the general idea??? it may be worth setting some time at the end of the ANIMA WG meeting for this, or even in the onboarding/mud side meeting. This is an onboarding point??? just likely after an offboarding ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima -- --- tte@cs.fau.de
- [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-anima-… Adam Roach via Datatracker
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Max Pritikin (pritikin)
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Adam Roach
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Anima] Adam Roach's Discuss on draft-ietf-an… Eliot Lear