Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those with no competitive interests?

Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> Fri, 20 January 2012 22:18 UTC

Return-Path: <narten@us.ibm.com>
X-Original-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F43421F8644 for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:18:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -108.772
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-108.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.827, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhX+vRxwO4PG for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from e39.co.us.ibm.com (e39.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.160]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E83C21F863F for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from /spool/local by e39.co.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org> from <narten@us.ibm.com>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:18:25 -0700
Received: from d03dlp03.boulder.ibm.com (9.17.202.179) by e39.co.us.ibm.com (192.168.1.139) with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:18:23 -0700
Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by d03dlp03.boulder.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C86C719D8026 for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:18:20 -0700 (MST)
Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id q0KMIMJV344872 for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:18:22 -0500
Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id q0KMIL2b018742 for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:18:21 -0700
Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-65-224-224.mts.ibm.com [9.65.224.224]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id q0KMIKeI018717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:18:21 -0700
Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id q0KMII1j007473; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:18:19 -0500
Message-Id: <201201202218.q0KMII1j007473@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
In-reply-to: <4F19E563.8050506@cs.tcd.ie>
References: <20120110205143.6FDCF21F86F9@ietfa.amsl.com> <A44BB68F-19AB-462B-8A65-ACA855EA2ED1@vigilsec.com> <DE7B7ADC-F160-4633-8FD0-8453573D9830@vigilsec.com> <4F19DFCF.7090608@cs.tcd.ie> <CAP0PwYZDVF1oGdMikAkxNrx965+W-+uMS-0usRSX9sX8QMaiWg@mail.gmail.com> <4F19E563.8050506@cs.tcd.ie>
Comments: In-reply-to Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> message dated "Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:06:27 +0000."
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 17:18:18 -0500
From: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER
x-cbid: 12012022-4242-0000-0000-00000092B623
Cc: antitrust-policy@ietf.org, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Jorge Contreras <cntreras@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] how does that affect those with no competitive interests?
X-BeenThere: antitrust-policy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discuss the need for an antitrust or competition policy for the IETF." <antitrust-policy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/antitrust-policy>
List-Post: <mailto:antitrust-policy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:18:26 -0000

Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> writes:

> My point is that this policy assumes that all participants can
> in principle be anti-competition which seems like nonsense to
> me.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but engineers with no background
in anti-trust opining "much ado about nothing, I work for XYZ which
can't possibly cause an issue" makes a good argument for why we do
need a policy. But it better be simple, clear and be understandable by
IETF participants. And maybe calling it a "policy" goes to far. What
we need is enough basic education about participant behavior to make
sure the IETF keeps out of trouble.

Much as we might like to ignore IPR, anti-trust, and other
non-engineering issues, we are potentially impacted by them, and the
IETF could (if it or its participants behave stupidly), could find
itself in a Heap of Pain.

But let's keep perspective here. Some simple guidelines, with an
understanding that if folk start going into dangerous territory that
needs to be stopped is probably about all we need.

Thomas