IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [antitrust-policy] [Gendispatch] draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust

Kirsty Paine <kirsty.ietf@gmail.com> Sun, 02 April 2023 23:41 UTC

Return-Path: <kirsty.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43200C151556 for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 16:41:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.094
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n-9A_20wfL9A for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com (mail-pj1-x1034.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 101B1C15154F for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Sun, 2 Apr 2023 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id p3-20020a17090a74c300b0023f69bc7a68so28707972pjl.4 for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 16:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680478879; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FNcjUeV4cM/iWn/XCojEoEeOQn8bBR0eGxnBweMaFKk=; b=pK7IE6wD3dPWXSMU3KienJt3pba+UsPrdauXbjO2PgJgR3cHJo6hvESx3L2UqSgart mePsF8SiN9OI6PbnqMnTFeYl/WFVnJ/7ymw7+SEug0ob3La+qeFk2ks+v9iDg1jx4jNd qAFkEXW0Z56I6M8hNgoKYD/VmGUCbuYWIHvmZ8k0boSESCx977crHou9E2naSLLtWw7t avpE8obseMU7f3Fqe/RJyZKHYlyp7yN24ZSreztW2+BeZW5G1J9/twm+75lZ68QuYTji s3y2G3ybgh2dJk3GxYIyX26F/Wd8S5xWrA4sE+D4kljbD5oALpWU7Eyu9tLSEnS5f0ux plog==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680478879; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=FNcjUeV4cM/iWn/XCojEoEeOQn8bBR0eGxnBweMaFKk=; b=xrmP5Ma5Tyg4nFOvXE93/TvRPjhmmBzb5t27ejfSLAfaZT8XJmknaBNpwZH4j1KVer I2WZwt82E+7llgCPu/NNSjWvaPkDveL7VGNndyHyeqIFjFQfR8iJH83ExthcdFN8wcIH WySxJOjxF9I6oUOsyrMxoQOm35s1Sdvg1sXKj19oGxwpEPiuIdj9Ze6HR7wmYWe5sRGX d9jKREhxwZW7GEfL9BCvxOgLlZ+BSVlVx5nropzFLUTnaLGhGWvDkjwgmMYBQwRBwtRd 6/QhOoh0eAxkL2m/cQsIwCshY//XpQRIXFu7g+47GHfRdo08P7NeNkp6U6F99sCQfzQ4 MGvg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9ffshBU1u829y6P2YW7Pwlu2uhjF88D3ltLd4YS5SzWPyP1TBg7 poiIfmesGMpY1C4e+aie5cvS73AOtT6oWqc1MRHTkdC0bohHRQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YgvdkQ4s4n9KQO3/kASzpL4xRCKAxQM63A4t4pE+yexDYDEFzLc2IFGIuSdiC5EGDi6uDQOBhXsX2H//xpRZ8=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e88e:b0:1a0:7630:8ef9 with SMTP id w14-20020a170902e88e00b001a076308ef9mr12957340plg.12.1680478879046; Sun, 02 Apr 2023 16:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <4PpQHf45Hnz1ns8c@mailb2.tigertech.net> <42C337B6-C28C-4CF1-B769-3D026E2FF7BA@vigilsec.com>
In-Reply-To: <42C337B6-C28C-4CF1-B769-3D026E2FF7BA@vigilsec.com>
From: Kirsty Paine <kirsty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:41:07 +0900
Message-ID: <CAC9wnY-9WRFXJnYq8jR6b4OBZ4=VO6d+=2ZYiZMxD0wnXuFqjw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Cc: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, antitrust-policy@ietf.org, "jmh.direct" <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a3622705f862fab2"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/antitrust-policy/DIKeYOSLBp3ow6d-Bfvva6MlpZU>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] [Gendispatch] draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust
X-BeenThere: antitrust-policy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discuss the need for an antitrust or competition policy for the IETF." <antitrust-policy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/antitrust-policy/>
List-Post: <mailto:antitrust-policy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2023 23:41:24 -0000

Folks,

A polite and gentle reminder that discussion on the contents of this draft
needs to move to the antitrust mailing list (which I see is CC’d) and
should not be on gendispatch. This reminder in no way reflects the quality
and validity of this discussion - please do continue it, but continue it
there.

For awareness, I have moved gendispatch to BCC, so we don’t get caught by
reply-all.

Kirsty


On Mon, 3 Apr 2023 at 05:50, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:

> Joel:
>
> If the Antitrust BOF had decided to devlop a policy, then there would be a
> policy to cite in Section 3.  That was not the outcome.
>
> I have no problem with Section 3.  However, Section 4 is "Additional
> Recommendations", which in my mind should be replaced with educational
> material on antitrust.
>
> Russ
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2023, at 1:11 AM, jmh.direct <jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
>
> Fundamentally, recommendations ARE education.  I have nonudea what an
> educational document would look like without recommendations.
> We have been as clear as we know how about the fact that none of the
> recommendations set IETF rules or policy.
> Even 4.2 bullet 2, which w are trying to rework further, just says that
> this is something known to cause problems for SDOs.
>
> Yours,
> Joel
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
> Date: 4/1/23 12:49 PM (GMT+09:00)
> To: gendispatch@ietf.org
> Cc: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>,
> antitrust-policy@ietf.org
> Subject: draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust
>
> As EKR already asked on the list, what needs fixing? As I recall, the lack
> of any problems was the reason that the ANTITRUST BOF decided not to
> produce a policy so many years ago. The conclusion was that educational
> material was sufficient.
>
> The draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust document explicitly says that it
> does not change IETF policy; however, the document includes
> recommendations.  So, it really is doing more than education.
>
> Russ
>
>
> --
> Gendispatch mailing list
> Gendispatch@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch
>

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status