Re: [antitrust-policy] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust/

Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> Wed, 22 February 2023 14:43 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
X-Original-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752B5C14F74B for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 06:43:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.895
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I80kSwcwePI7 for <antitrust-policy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 06:43:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.130.35]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D030C14F731 for <antitrust-policy@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 06:43:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dslb-002-205-055-009.002.205.pools.vodafone-ip.de ([2.205.55.9] helo=smtpclient.apple); authenticated by wp513.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1pUqLM-0004bY-Us; Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:43:40 +0100
From: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
Message-Id: <31F6DC82-E3FD-422A-B9B0-6260DA49F6AB@kuehlewind.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D3F0E5F6-D4B5-4E97-830B-AF369ECA0FC4"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.300.101.1.3\))
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 15:43:30 +0100
In-Reply-To: <dbc9ba5b-992b-eaf0-9cc7-6bf7e4526453@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: antitrust-policy@ietf.org
To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
References: <dbc9ba5b-992b-eaf0-9cc7-6bf7e4526453@joelhalpern.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.300.101.1.3)
X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;ietf@kuehlewind.net;1677077023;95d23ed1;
X-HE-SMSGID: 1pUqLM-0004bY-Us
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/antitrust-policy/IDlJZc6dlGeEQywcvwCKFswneqY>
Subject: Re: [antitrust-policy] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-gendispatch-antitrust/
X-BeenThere: antitrust-policy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discuss the need for an antitrust or competition policy for the IETF." <antitrust-policy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/antitrust-policy/>
List-Post: <mailto:antitrust-policy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy>, <mailto:antitrust-policy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2023 14:43:45 -0000

Hi Joel,

Thanks, the document looks pretty good to me. I have three questions:

1) In section 4.2, you have this point which is to be honest not fully clear to me:

"Using detailed market data to evaluate the relative implementation
      costs of two technical alternatives to decide whether one is
      significantly more feasible in the market and thus a better
      candidate for standardization."

I would think this is only a problem if that would lead to disadvantage to certain competitors or something like that…? To me this point is currently unclear and seem overly broad, so as participant I wouldn’t be really sure what to do about this advice.

2) Then at the end of the section the draft says:

“… or contacting IETF counsel directly.”

But the next section actually says

“The IETF does not provide legal advice to participants”

Isn’t that contracting?

2) And finally not sure if that’s the right advice in section 4.4 about reporting. I would think an employee should report something rather to their own company. Or do you mean the case where an independent third person would observe something? However, what would the IETF do with this information?


Mirja



> On 22. Feb 2023, at 14:46, Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
> 
> When this was dispatched, I said I would poke folks again.
> 
> The authors would very much appreciate comments, opinions, and better discussion of, this draft.  We would like to be able to submit a revision addressing concerns by the cutoff, to align with the ADs goal.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Joel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> antitrust-policy mailing list
> antitrust-policy@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/antitrust-policy