Re: [Apn] Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com> Wed, 16 June 2021 10:23 UTC

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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>, "'apn@ietf.org'" <apn@ietf.org>, 'RTGWG' <rtgwg@ietf.org>
CC: '6MAN' <6man@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 10:23:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Apn] Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim
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Hi Barbara,
Please refer to my reply inline.

Best Regards,
Robin


From: STARK, BARBARA H [mailto:bs7652@att.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 4:53 AM
To: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>om>; 'apn@ietf.org' <apn@ietf.org>rg>; 'RTGWG' <rtgwg@ietf.org>
Cc: '6MAN' <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

It seems odd not to consider a broadband deployment architecture like
https://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-470.pdf
in the context of wanting to enable improved usage of network slicing and such.

The BNG architecture does what it was intended to do: Ethernet aggregation.
If you want to do something else, you should probably consider a different architecture (or
consider working with BBF to evolve its BNG architecture into something different --
if you don't want the AGF architecture with a 5G-RG described in the above link).

Note the BNG is a BBF-defined network element. AFAIK, it was originally defined in:
https://www.broadband-forum.org/technical/download/TR-101_Issue-2.pdf

To Michael's comments: While there are still some (many?) operators who use PPPoE, I'm aware of
major operators who use BNGs without PPP or PPPoE. PPP is not a core function when
operating a BNG in an access network. Ethernet-based aggregation is the central feature that
defines a BNG.

[Robin] Thanks for your information on the network architecture of the BNG. As what I reply Michael,
in the home broadband scenario, we focus on the metro network and the case that the existing L2
information in the packet can also be used to map to the APN ID. There may be more existing
information from the PPPOE or IPOE packet header. We can take them into account. Your information
is a good input to prioritize the possible existing information.


So, again, if someone wants to do network slicing instead of Ethernet aggregation
(based on VLAN tags), they are right that the BNG is not the right access architecture
component. The AGF with a 5G-RG is much better suited to supporting network slicing.
Fortunately, a specification already exists for that architecture (complete with detailed
requirements for the 5G-RG [in TR-124] and how to manage the 5G-RG using TR-181).
[Robin] The network slice described in the drafts of the APN work is the IETF network slice scenario in the metro
network or the mobile transport network. The edge can steer the packet to the corresponding IETF network slice
according to the policy matching the APN ID.


Barbara

From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lizhenbin
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 10:27 AM
To: apn@ietf.org<mailto:apn@ietf.org>; RTGWG <rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>
Cc: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org<mailto:6man@ietf.org>>
Subject: Clarification on the BNG deployment//RE: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Hi Folks,
In the interim meeting, there were much discussion on the BNG deployment in the home broadband scenario. In the section 5 of the following draft, there is more details about the scenarios.
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-apn-problem-statement-usecases-03.txt<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-li-apn-problem-statement-usecases-03.txt__;!!BhdT!3x44cVFathXW5PntzRYHyVvBmnpz1XlgAyiKPu5OZGeTMI8ZIF8YEX9EiAnJ_w$>

As far as I know, there are types of deployment of BNGs in the scenarios:
1. RG is directly connected with the BNG
2. RG is connected spanning the metro network.
Because the BNG is responsible for the user management, if failure happens, it will have much negative effect on the users' access to the Internet or other network services. If the second deployment method is used, the number of the BNG is small and the BNG can access more users, but the risk is high. If the first deployment is adopted, it may need more BNGs, but the risk can be low. So there is the trade-off in the network design and the deployment of the BNG.

The draft takes the second deployment to illustrate that the QinQ information besides the 5-tuple information can also be mapped to APN ID when the packet traverses the metro network.  That is the reason why not describe the first type of deployment.


Best Regards,
Robin





From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
Sent: Friday, June 4, 2021 10:53 PM
To: apn@ietf.org<mailto:apn@ietf.org>
Cc: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org<mailto:6man@ietf.org>>; RTGWG <rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Apn] Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Dear all,

Many thanks for the questions, comments, and suggestions from those who joined the APN focused Interim meeting yesterday, which were very helpful to further refine the work and progress it forwards.

Please find the meeting minutes and materials discussed yesterday.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg__;!!BhdT!3x44cVFathXW5PntzRYHyVvBmnpz1XlgAyiKPu5OZGeTMI8ZIF8YEX8NEVCG-Q$>

If you have any views, comments, and questions, please don't hesitate to post them in the mailing list.

Many thanks again to our AD and Chairs for arranging this Interim meeting!

Nice weekend! :)

Best regards,
Shuping j



From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 9:14 AM
To: apn@ietf.org<mailto:apn@ietf.org>
Cc: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org<mailto:6man@ietf.org>>; RTGWG <rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>
Subject: FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Dear all,

Just a reminder that the APN focused Interim meeting @RTG will be held tomorrow, Thursday 2021-06-03 14:00 UTC. The Webex is attached.

You could find the slides that are going to guide the discussions in the following link. There might be minor updates in the final slides.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2021-rtgwg-01/session/rtgwg__;!!BhdT!3x44cVFathXW5PntzRYHyVvBmnpz1XlgAyiKPu5OZGeTMI8ZIF8YEX8NEVCG-Q$>

The tentative agenda is as follows,

1.      Agenda bashing (10mins) -AD, Chairs

2.      Problem Statement (30mins) - Gyan Mishra

3.      Solution discussions (45-60mins) - Shuping/Robin

4.      Wrap-up & action plan (10mins) - Chairs

If you have any suggestions and comments, please let us know. Many thanks!

Best regards,
Shuping


From: Apn [mailto:apn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 8:55 AM
To: 6MAN <6man@ietf.org<mailto:6man@ietf.org>>
Cc: apn@ietf.org<mailto:apn@ietf.org>; Routing Area Working Group <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>>; 6man-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:6man-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: [Apn] FW: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Dear all,

The APN Interim meeting has been scheduled on June 3rd. Please find the meeting information shared by the Chairs of the RTG WG below.

In this APN Interim meeting, we are going to focus more on the discussions of the solutions (more overview than details), including
1.       the design of the APN attribute itself
2.       the encapsulation of the APN attribute on the various data planes (the encapsulation on the IPv6 data plane is an example)
3.       the control plane protocols extensions for exchanging the APN attribute
4.       NETCONF/YANG models for the NBI and SBI

You are very welcomed to join the discussions, and your comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.

Thank you!

Best regards,
Shuping



From: rtgwg [mailto:rtgwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tantsura
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 6:38 AM
To: Routing WG <rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg-chairs@ietf.org>>; RTGWG <rtgwg@ietf.org<mailto:rtgwg@ietf.org>>
Subject: Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim

Dear RTGWG,

We have scheduled Application-Aware Networking (APN) focused interim (agenda to be published), June 3rd, 2021, 7:00AM PST

Looking forward to seeing you,

Cheers,
Jeff and Chris




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