Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
SM <sm@resistor.net> Tue, 22 March 2011 08:46 UTC
Return-Path: <sm@resistor.net>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AE03A67B5 for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -101.211
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.388, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_FWDLOOK=1.666, SARE_LWFORWARD=1.11, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xCHstVDBRItW for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx.elandsys.com (eland-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:c:d43::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C22313A67AA for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:46:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.4/8.14.5.Beta0) with ESMTP id p2M8lxFT010746; Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1300783685; bh=T0TFmzNpZbLDlhfmDN4vhw7nQ6wNZBmsru34GBNhivc=; h=Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To: References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=b6dNI6N3mELUopQnrDbig/B7mCxgGROLeVfm7mc0hKcIeJ4SM5lwV2C4OTxoKYYvv pjNX7HoPXvTbJBCdhlqz9da7czL4gbB1jvqTiAMSWjtbICcwz80y6VktB1pTGFJNx2 J+Y0/oQQFj5+toAD8nE1XJ1rEonMSxZXWkbbB3AA=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1300783685; bh=T0TFmzNpZbLDlhfmDN4vhw7nQ6wNZBmsru34GBNhivc=; h=Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To: References:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=AQVNAvnx6tJHpJRPgHGotVNpVmf9liMKGjyWfxE51zyoWeiRJgXPs1T2U7p/p2oF6 oJkJPSoVw3qMTbXaZmmN56UxoM7HJm6nhISbWL4efstjXka+48kcTc5I8JAp2YTMQq zH53X4wybjRvijt/d8nbxDXCthwaqTm6PcjnemiA=
Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20110322002954.0ca26cc8@resistor.net>
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 01:47:52 -0700
To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
From: SM <sm@resistor.net>
In-Reply-To: <3D3C75174CB95F42AD6BCC56E5555B450404241E@FIESEXC015.nsn-in tra.net>
References: <4D87612E.3090900@dcrocker.net> <4D881C04.2080406@qualcomm.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20110321223051.0e352650@resistor.net> <3D3C75174CB95F42AD6BCC56E5555B450404241E@FIESEXC015.nsn-intra.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Cc: Apps Discuss <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:46:38 -0000
Hi Hannes, At 00:24 22-03-2011, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote: > > Instead of talking about finding a role in this "post-standardization > > environment" [sic], the IETF might as well shut down the Applications > > Area and create a Web Area. > >Two points: > >A) A few groups with relevance to the Web have recently been created in >the applications area. >Examples: OAuth, Websec, hybi > >B) You phrase it in a bad way that we talk about this topic. What is >wrong with looking at trends in the industry that some of us are seeing >happening? You can make fun about the way we wrote the document and my >English writing skills. I'll respond to your last point first. I don't see anything wrong with your English writing skills. I did not even think of that. If I did, I would definitely not make fun about it. I commented on the paragraphs about "The Future of Applications" at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda/ When I see terms like "post-standardization environment", "forward-looking statements" come to mind. Such terms are also used by people with excellent English writing skills. I read "post-standardization environment" in terms of an organization trying to find something to do when its mission is obsoleted by events. I am aware of the work being carried out in OAuth, Websec and Hybi. There is nothing wrong with discussing about the trends in the industry. The arguments that are being made are, in my opinion, similar to those made in RFC 3903. Regards, -sm
- [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Leslie Daigle
- [apps-discuss] IETF-port-80 technical plenary Re:… Leslie Daigle
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF-port-80 technical plenary… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Peterson, Jon
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX)
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- [apps-discuss] HYBI Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] HYBI Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [apps-discuss] HYBI Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland