Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols

Claudio Allocchio <> Tue, 22 March 2011 08:48 UTC

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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:49:53 +0100 (CET)
From: Claudio Allocchio <>
To: Pete Resnick <>
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Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Pete Resnick wrote:

> On 3/21/11 9:31 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>> Folks,
>> I just saw the announcement for the Technical Plenary presentation.
> I sent this to the IAB a few weeks ago. We haven't had much conversation 
> (they responded, but the firehose of stuff before the IETF meeting kept me 
> from replying until recently), but I thought you all would be amused.


+1000 !


(and I'm happy to be managing an R&D "carrier" which still thinks exactly 
what you wrote).

> -------- Original Message --------
> Message-ID: <>
> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:53:21 -0600
> From: Pete Resnick <>
> To: <>
> Subject: IAB Technical Session
> CC: "'The IESG'" <>
> [Feel free to forward this as you see fit.]
> Dear IAB,
> You will probably find it unsurprising that I find the abstract of the 
> technical session at the IAB plenary to be completely unadulterated rubbish. 
> It is by no means the "advancement in the design of web browsers" nor the 
> "widespread availability and growing sophistication of JavaScript 
> interpreters in browsers" that has changed the architecture of applications. 
> Quite the contrary, it is the forcing of a particular application paradigm, 
> that of requiring all applications to be client-server based with all 
> intelligence based in the server, that has in turn forced Javascript 
> sophistication to increase to accommodate complex application logic inside 
> the browser. (Indeed, it is this force that has led to HyBi, the abomination 
> whereby browser-based applications, instead of being able to simply open a 
> TCP connection, are forced to go through an HTTP tunnel to the web server in 
> order to get any kind of network connectivity.) Protocols like POP and IMAP 
> are not being subsumed into these systems. Rather, the semantics of these 
> protocols are being dumbed down, eliminating functionality, in order to allow 
> them to fit into the new constrained environment.
> There are two obvious drivers of this evolution: First and foremost is the 
> continuing lack of end-to-end connectivity in the network. This is due to the 
> presence of NATs and assorted firewall nonsense that makes non-tunneled 
> applications harder and harder to deploy. But the second driving force is the 
> more insidious one: economics. The economics of the Internet are currently 
> being driven by big players consolidating the network, pushing as much as 
> they can into servers so that they can control both the data and the user 
> experience for applications on the Internet. This of course is not in the 
> interest of end users, except insofar as the "big players" are end users with 
> large economic interests. The more centralized the data becomes, the more 
> dependent users are on the "big players", the less innovation in applications 
> can take place, and the less stable the Internet is as a whole.
> This is not a state of affairs in which we need to "identify areas where the 
> standardization is unlikely to be relevant in the future, and focus our 
> efforts on those areas where our application designs will remain impactful." 
> Rather, we need to do what we can with tools we are currently developing (the 
> deployment of IPv6, the use of MPTCP and other protocols which allow us to 
> route around the damage to the end-to-end model) to combat this model and 
> have the Internet remain a distributed end-to-end network.
> Back to La Mancha. I've been noticing these windmills....
> pr
> -- 
> Pete Resnick<>
> Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
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> apps-discuss mailing list

Claudio Allocchio             G   A   R   R
                         Senior Technical Officer
tel: +39 040 3758523      Italian Academic and       G=Claudio; S=Allocchio;
fax: +39 040 3758565        Research Network         P=garr; A=garr; C=it;

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