Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols

Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it> Tue, 22 March 2011 08:48 UTC

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From: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>
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To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
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Cc: dcrocker@bbiw.net, Apps Discuss <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Pete Resnick wrote:

> On 3/21/11 9:31 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>> Folks,
>> 
>> I just saw the announcement for the Technical Plenary presentation.
> I sent this to the IAB a few weeks ago. We haven't had much conversation 
> (they responded, but the firehose of stuff before the IETF meeting kept me 
> from replying until recently), but I thought you all would be amused.

Pete...

+1000 !

:-)

(and I'm happy to be managing an R&D "carrier" which still thinks exactly 
what you wrote).

>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Message-ID: <4D76B361.2050704@qualcomm.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:53:21 -0600
> From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
> To: <iab@iab.org>
> Subject: IAB Technical Session
> CC: "'The IESG'" <iesg@ietf.org>
>
> [Feel free to forward this as you see fit.]
>
> Dear IAB,
>
> You will probably find it unsurprising that I find the abstract of the 
> technical session at the IAB plenary to be completely unadulterated rubbish. 
> It is by no means the "advancement in the design of web browsers" nor the 
> "widespread availability and growing sophistication of JavaScript 
> interpreters in browsers" that has changed the architecture of applications. 
> Quite the contrary, it is the forcing of a particular application paradigm, 
> that of requiring all applications to be client-server based with all 
> intelligence based in the server, that has in turn forced Javascript 
> sophistication to increase to accommodate complex application logic inside 
> the browser. (Indeed, it is this force that has led to HyBi, the abomination 
> whereby browser-based applications, instead of being able to simply open a 
> TCP connection, are forced to go through an HTTP tunnel to the web server in 
> order to get any kind of network connectivity.) Protocols like POP and IMAP 
> are not being subsumed into these systems. Rather, the semantics of these 
> protocols are being dumbed down, eliminating functionality, in order to allow 
> them to fit into the new constrained environment.
>
> There are two obvious drivers of this evolution: First and foremost is the 
> continuing lack of end-to-end connectivity in the network. This is due to the 
> presence of NATs and assorted firewall nonsense that makes non-tunneled 
> applications harder and harder to deploy. But the second driving force is the 
> more insidious one: economics. The economics of the Internet are currently 
> being driven by big players consolidating the network, pushing as much as 
> they can into servers so that they can control both the data and the user 
> experience for applications on the Internet. This of course is not in the 
> interest of end users, except insofar as the "big players" are end users with 
> large economic interests. The more centralized the data becomes, the more 
> dependent users are on the "big players", the less innovation in applications 
> can take place, and the less stable the Internet is as a whole.
>
> This is not a state of affairs in which we need to "identify areas where the 
> standardization is unlikely to be relevant in the future, and focus our 
> efforts on those areas where our application designs will remain impactful." 
> Rather, we need to do what we can with tools we are currently developing (the 
> deployment of IPv6, the use of MPTCP and other protocols which allow us to 
> route around the damage to the end-to-end model) to combat this model and 
> have the Internet remain a distributed end-to-end network.
>
> Back to La Mancha. I've been noticing these windmills....
>
> pr
>
> -- 
> Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
> Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
>
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