Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-received-state?
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Fri, 13 January 2012 18:53 UTC
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Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:53:39 -0500
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com>, apps-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-received-state?
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Murray and others, You can consider this an objection to AppsAWG handling the document in this form or one of the first comments in the dicussion of it. SMTP rather carefully defines "trace information" or "trace headers" and then limits that category to two types of information, the Received header fields and the Return-path one. I think I know why Jon Postel did it that way, but it is pure reconstruction: if I actually knew at the time, I've long since forgotten. In any event, we have discovered repeatedly (and sometimes painfully) that the the Received header field is not well designed for extensibility. It depends on an ordered, context-dependent, reserved keyword model (something I don't think anyone would do today) and then switches to an Atom-String pair model for additional clauses. While I have no problem at all with the type of facility the draft proposes, I think that, if we are going to entertain this sort of thing, we should have a serious discussion about how far we want to go in extending "Received:" and when it is time to add one or more additional Trace header fields, possibly with a typology of functions that each serves (beyond "inserted by a transit MTA or something else") and with a syntax that is clearly name-value based, rather than even partially dependent on parser recognition of specific keywords. Let's not turn "Received:" further into a kludge just because it is there. john --On Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:46 -0800 "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com> wrote: > For evidence that there's interest in this work, or at least a > lot of input to it, visit > http://www.imc.org/ietf-smtp/mail-archive/. > > From: apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:apps-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. > Kucherawy Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 1:07 PM > To: apps-discuss@ietf.org > Subject: [apps-discuss] Adoption of > draft-kucherawy-received-state? > > Can I get a show of support (or objection) to processing this > through APPSAWG? > > Mykyta already gave a +1 to this before it was asked, but > others have not said so explicitly. > > I'm game, of course.
- [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-receiv… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Trace headers, was Adoption of… John R. Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Trace headers, was Adoption of… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] Trace headers, was Adoption of… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Alessandro Vesely
- [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Trace headers, was Adoption of… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] Trace headers, was Adoption of… John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [apps-discuss] possibleTrace fields registry Nico Williams
- [apps-discuss] Draft for trace fields registry John Levine
- Re: [apps-discuss] Draft for trace fields registry Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Draft for trace fields registry S Moonesamy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Draft for trace fields registry Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Adoption of draft-kucherawy-re… John C Klensin
- [apps-discuss] Stanzas of trace fields, was Adopt… Alessandro Vesely