Re: [apps-discuss] "finding registered domains"

Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Sun, 10 March 2013 19:12 UTC

Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781CB21F866F for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.45
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rqbhs8iuVG4g for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wg0-x229.google.com (mail-wg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C559B21F8629 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id ds1so1388079wgb.0 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=1Ec7Z+dLH/fJ8dlZZv08Nd190rDiL1B6UhtxzrsSa/o=; b=EfpcG7qY7zRWhEFOG4quruFWiIfhzc/nrG4ml0yle4CYeBPj1Dsc02Dx+CsZyGIvq8 lS5v5Ljk4aTDcefSzUT73/bm7+vUOwLJDb8CDJF7As48jvGtmeLEuCAFAqzqZgzuCPOY +6apXveds6aSuzf+yJ1t17ewlHGEjsVAY08wUA3wfYiX7+SMye9YQvKvsp7qoKBUB9Av Grf4dJ9MEBZ+cPSL8WrYgCppXdTt7+cgIgUkqicU+yKo1VgOYSBXoDljpdu7DxPHDyKg 5K5tgBi8YPKAz+KRcTkXOxmxm9uhQn9PMCgcMJTdMSCNsvh+Up1niosrq+xv7Ytyc1cb zmzw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.194.63.240 with SMTP id j16mr14866306wjs.45.1362942751022; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.194.11.71 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:12:30 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <2EB68C60-4146-4072-A005-DA8DD9AF7993@frobbit.se>
References: <20130310042250.GE33497@mx1.yitter.info> <75239F19-93AF-40EF-A367-0E289A6D1269@frobbit.se> <20130310182928.GE37514@mx1.yitter.info> <2EB68C60-4146-4072-A005-DA8DD9AF7993@frobbit.se>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:12:30 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+LwiHvTmJBxLSPh7ZVRMOyy0-UpRBak9vKL7To9n1sezw5A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: Patrik Fältström <paf@frobbit.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] "finding registered domains"
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:12:32 -0000

I think that there are two separate sets of security requirements here
and there is therefore a need to be able to state either

* This domain is a public delegation point
* This domain is NOT a public delegation point.

Andrew's proposal seems to be limited to the security issues of
cookies. I think there is a much better way to solve the security
problems of cookies, one that is guaranteed to be 100% reliable,
albeit not one that is likely to be acceptable...

The reason I want both types of assertion is that we use the public
suffix list in a different way when we are issuing a certificate and
the security concerns are rather different as a result. In particular
CAs are only ever going to consider information retrieved from the DNS
as 'evidence'. It is never going to be considered to be 'proof' and
never relied on to the exclusion of any other information.