Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message BCP draft
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Mon, 18 April 2011 12:49 UTC
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 08:48:58 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <msk@cloudmark.com>
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References: <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F1343319E22@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <CEDB17EC-80CE-49B5-91C1-FBCB0449BBA5@network-heretics.com> <4DA8542F.9040003@tana.it> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F1343319E51@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <4DA876B6.9050700@dcrocker.net> <3111.1302886470.781218@puncture> <4DA878B4.9060007@dcrocker.net> <B5B267BE-98C6-40F3-9D37-0CE95AE5F1D4@network-heretics.com> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F1343319E5F@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1104181313310.19348@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk>
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Cc: ietf-822 <ietf-822@imc.org>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss@ietf.org>, dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message BCP draft
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--On Monday, April 18, 2011 13:19 +0100 Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote: > Murray S. Kucherawy <msk@cloudmark.com> wrote: >> >> I don't think this work is targeted at intermediaries. In >> fact, I'd be completely fine with expressly saying it's meant >> to address processing at ingress MTAs only. > > If you are going to make that kind of restriction, it should > happen at submission servers only. > > There is a history of MX servers making "helpful" fix-ups to > messgaes (e.g. inserting missing message-id or from headers) > before handing them over to anti-spam software, which can make > spam/legit checks invalid in both the positive and negative > senses. So I think MXs should be as transparent as possible so > that downstream security software is less likely to have > interop problems. Intermediate relays should also be as > transparent as possible. Of course, this is exactly what RFCs 4409, 5068, and 5321 say: considerable flexibility for making fixes for the submission server, which is presumably under the control of (or at least responsible to) the sender; relays don't mess with message contents until they get to the delivery server. Various operational considerations have modified that somewhat but, if this specification doesn't apply to intermediaries, it changes nothing except, as Eric Burger points out, the practical definition of well-formed messages. IMO, if we want to do that (and I'd personally not favor it), we should do so in some 5322bis, not try to sneak the changes in via a BCP that is inconsistent with 5322. john
- [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message BCP … Simon Tyler
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Simon Tyler
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Keith Moore
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Keith Moore
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Keith Moore
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Keith Moore
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … J.D. Falk
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Larry Masinter
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Keith Moore
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Peter Koch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Eric Burger
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … John C Klensin
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Ned Freed
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Comments on Malformed Message … Douglas Otis
- Re: [apps-discuss] FW: Comments on Malformed Mess… Barry Leiba
- Re: [apps-discuss] FW: Comments on Malformed Mess… Murray S. Kucherawy