Re: [apps-discuss] Call for adoption of draft-kucherawy-mta-malformed-00.txt as an APPSAWG document

Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> Fri, 08 July 2011 16:59 UTC

Return-Path: <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93CEB21F8BEC for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -103.17
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.17 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.193, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vLHbh52bTA0A for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 140E621F8942 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by gyd5 with SMTP id 5so1011908gyd.31 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=W1yx/OJEXFPrYAAJgqdPGuOLCJWP1GxZNc41+qqFelE=; b=mB9xHIn5fJZbBWrn0p8tcKgjAx58mVCJc0Aq9jgw/jzOkxAvhEyAp7udRbYPNkCcfT ro8XrsN9fbmHaerQW7tJFW+4Z0h2bKNgIRQ/gWHIqOm39JW6qhKcWw0eKwO3bcC+QLEu CWNME21SiNGWDlP8ylxkIQaTPeFh8TfU8VprM=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.236.180.98 with SMTP id i62mr2674530yhm.403.1310144354559; Fri, 08 Jul 2011 09:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com
Received: by 10.147.41.12 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1107081031540.14085@joyce.lan>
References: <20110706052247.16131.qmail@joyce.lan> <A93D2D06-E4EF-447C-A3AD-1122A3D5A1EA@guppylake.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1107081017070.14085@joyce.lan> <F5833273385BB34F99288B3648C4F06F134EBC4BE2@EXCH-C2.corp.cloudmark.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1107081031540.14085@joyce.lan>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:59:14 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: Fr0zj5DsoH8WOZapVq8tbvjDYS4
Message-ID: <CAC4RtVCMCRynQ6URF3XfZPoj14WWwEuMoir7yym8ZchHTUUUpg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cc: "apps-discuss@ietf.org" <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Call for adoption of draft-kucherawy-mta-malformed-00.txt as an APPSAWG document
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:59:15 -0000

> If I may revise and extend my remarks, an MSA, unlike an MTA, can reasonably
> fix a lot of flaws that an MTA would have to either tolerate or reject,
> since it typically has metadata like a sender (whoever AUTHed) and a date
> (now).  And as others have noted, the costs of rejection are typically a lot
> less, just bumping the message back to the author to fix.

Beware, though: you quickly run into the infamous BMP -- "Barry's
Mother" Problem.

The "author" isn't going to fix it.  The MUA is.  If the author is
using a broken MUA, which generates the malformed message, bumping it
back to the author amounts to telling the author to use a different
(or newer version) MUA.

If the author is my mother, that simply won't work.  It also won't
work in the case of, say, a company with 20,000 copies of PoodleMail,
when the company just switched to you as their service provider.
"Oh," they will say, "That was a mistake.  I'd better switch back to
my old service provider, because PoodleMail worked fine with them!"
They certainly aren't likely to have all 20,000 of their employees
switch to a different mail program in order to accommodate *you* (as
they see it).

Barry