Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net> Mon, 21 March 2011 16:54 UTC
Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CEEF28C0EB for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.592
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.592 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8EBCi5Lw9Td for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sbh17.songbird.com (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FCB73A687B for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.4] (adsl-67-127-56-68.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.127.56.68]) (authenticated bits=0) by sbh17.songbird.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p2LGtZli024160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:55:41 -0700
Message-ID: <4D878303.60908@dcrocker.net>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:55:31 -0700
From: Dave CROCKER <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Scott Brim <scott.brim@gmail.com>
References: <4D87612E.3090900@dcrocker.net> <AANLkTik_f-4E8eoWbY2SowzTUdk53L3oiLZwFgoFS20y@mail.gmail.com> <4D876B4C.5070706@dcrocker.net> <4D877D30.9090502@stpeter.im> <4D877EDF.1090500@dcrocker.net> <AANLkTik6TEyXih9by+DLCqn+y6zAEPSP1pX0_kOb5j_8@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik6TEyXih9by+DLCqn+y6zAEPSP1pX0_kOb5j_8@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (sbh17.songbird.com [72.52.113.17]); Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Apps Discuss <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:54:11 -0000
On 3/21/2011 9:40 AM, Scott Brim wrote: > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:37, Dave CROCKER<dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote: >> I think Claudio raises another fundamental point, namely the loss of >> interoperability. The proposed model is a pure silo, with no apparent >> ability to have variations or incremental capabilities that build on the >> base, except by the single vendor providing the proprietary protocol. > > Could you give a specific example? My email client accesses 6 different accounts. The point of commonality is my client. Typical silo solutions are for that silo only. As being touted, that would mean 6 different downloaded, proprietary access clients, with my having to switch from one to another. Besides being a pain, this means that they cannot share data, such as getting a message in on one account and forwarding it through another. To the extent that you (quite reasonably) then project adaption of some of these to support additional, external accounts, what we done is merely to reinvent the general-purpose email client, except that I have to be careful to invoke the correct one every time... d/ ps. The rather bizare problem with many different and non-interoperable IM protocols is another example of this. Although some independent clients have gotten pretty good at providing an integrative experience, it is not possible to do group IMs except within a proprietary context requiring everyone to have an account with the same provider. If then. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Cyrus Daboo
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Bhumip Khasnabish
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Leslie Daigle
- [apps-discuss] IETF-port-80 technical plenary Re:… Leslie Daigle
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF-port-80 technical plenary… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peterson, Jon
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Peterson, Jon
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX)
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Nico Williams
- [apps-discuss] HYBI Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] HYBI Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [apps-discuss] HYBI Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Graham Klyne
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland