Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT
Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> Wed, 23 March 2011 21:32 UTC
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Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:33:46 -0700
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From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Cc: Apps Discuss <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT
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On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: > So, AJAX appears to be the new NAT. So, that's a very good sound bite, but not a very accurate analysis. There are two pieces that have been pointed out it a variety of ways which you seem to miss: Once a node can > control the code on *both* communicating peers, it can do interesting > things without having to standardize much, as shown in RFC 3320 and as > demonstrated nicely in AJAX. The first is that AJAX is a client-server model which ensure that only one of the two nodes can control the code on *both* communicating peers. That has a set of impacts that has been alluded to already in this discussion, and it tends to concentrate power and development effort. You could say that enables innovation, as it creates a pool of libraries and methods that can be re-used by others. You could say it stifles it, because that concentration ignores other fertile ground. It's that second point that is really at issue for the web as a platform for application delivery. Those issues don't relate as strongly to the downloadable code issue as the base protocol having been built for synchronous transfer of relatively small, cachable, discrete objects; it's changed, of course, but the ability to do reasonable things on that basis has its limits. The RTCWeb effort that will be discussed in the upcoming BoF has been trotted out as an example of the beauty of this approach. In fact, it's a great example of the tension. Some aspects of the real-time communication it means to enable can be mediated by web servers fairly easily (the rendezvous and, to some extent, the negotiation). Other aspects, like the audio and video streams passed among peers, still make much more sense delivered as RTP or using RTP-like flows. (NB: my personal opinion; the eventual WG will have to draw the lines itself). In other words, there is a class of client-server protocols for which downloadable code is a good tool. There are other protocol requirements that are, bluntly, ill-met by that. We want innovation to proceed in both classes of problem. Which means enabling the first class *while acknowledging its limits*. Just my two cents, of course. Ted Hardie
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- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Claudio Allocchio
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
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- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
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- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Ted Hardie
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Peterson, Jon
- Re: [apps-discuss] AJAX is the new NAT Marc Petit-Huguenin
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- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Scott Brim
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Pete Resnick
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
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- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland