Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xdash-02.txt
"t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com> Wed, 25 January 2012 10:23 UTC
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From: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>
To: "Paul Hoffman" <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>,
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Cc: apps-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xdash-02.txt
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Hoffman" <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> To: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> Cc: <apps-discuss@ietf.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:03 AM > On Jan 24, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > On 09/12/2011 17:19, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > > However there weren't many comments on the document, so it is either perfect or people don't care. > > That's somewhat disingenuous. Some of us care very much but didn't think that commenting on the document would have any effect on the outcome. > Yes, my thoughts exactly. The document reads like an edict from a socialist state, 'in future, you will ...[insert nonsense appropriate to your culture]' and taking on socialist states is a losing game for the individual. But you ask. The body of the document is dogmatic, the support for the bald statement lies in Appendix B (normative?) and is almost as weak. The e-mail that came to me contained 15 distinct X- headers; what are the creators of those meant to do now? And what in future when they wish to develop or experiment with a new idea, perhaps one that will be very successful but only within a walled garden? The real failure lies with SMTP, MIME etc, or those who specified it, who failed to see the need for migration (all too common a point of view in the IETF). Having a private namespace in which to develop and experiment without harming the Internet is an excellent idea and crops up in many forms, of which this I-D only addresses the 'X-' format. When such work is successful, and the desire is there to move it to the Internet, then a migration strategy is needed and it is this that the MIMiEs etc failed to plan for. This failure does not invalidate the case for a private portion of the namespace. And, to be expected really, this I-D fails to consider migration; what is going to happen now to those 15 X- headers and all the others that are in other e-mails? Where is your migration plan? And what about all the other private portions of namespaces that are designated with something other than X-? Will you produce an edict prohibiting them as well? Tom Petch > My comments: the document makes grandiose, over-arching suggestions that indicate a one-size-fits-all view of the standards process. I would probably do the same if I were co-author of this document, with half of my suggestions being the same as what is the draft and half being the opposite. > > A different way to do the document would be a single paragraph: "People have thought about this topic for over a decade, probably much harder than you are thinking about this now. They often disagreed with each other, indicating that you are not thinking hard enough about your current choices. Whatever you choose to do with respect to not-yet-defined parameters, you will likely regret the choice if your protocol is at all popular." Such a concise document is much easier to read and much less likely to be noticed than the current one. > > --Paul Hoffman > > _______________________________________________ > apps-discuss mailing list > apps-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss > >
- [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xdash-0… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… t.petch
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Murray S. Kucherawy
- [apps-discuss] X-Original (was: WGLC on draft-iet… SM
- Re: [apps-discuss] X-Original (was: WGLC on draft… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Zoltan Ordogh
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Zoltan Ordogh
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… t.petch
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… t.petch
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… t.petch
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Dave CROCKER
- Re: [apps-discuss] WGLC on draft-ietf-appsawg-xda… Peter Saint-Andre