Re: [apps-discuss] Requirement for "obsoletes" in Abstracts (was: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-media-type-regs-00.txt)

Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> Sat, 04 February 2012 18:12 UTC

Return-Path: <barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA7721F84F6 for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 4 Feb 2012 10:12:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.951
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N5AHA-nr+yPG for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 4 Feb 2012 10:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A252C21F84F5 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 4 Feb 2012 10:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: by ggnq2 with SMTP id q2so2715264ggn.31 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:12:46 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=fHyBPctDRvwRP1Arc3PAbVRHu8qUmMRHY/eXASpd1Dk=; b=o8loXFvJuWNCWKpqTAXTMv8RBgwguJsTq5Hu6dw3pRAVley9+ulA4KwFMCkeolol43 uRiDJFq+uUm/WUAVFqfIPI0LwISNVEvvlsD9OXGLoPVCDW/mkwH8wjDicfpVRAfDO+uW Ri1mtPerOMN05U8pFNeubIk8SLyV9JpN+3aJY=
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.101.141.9 with SMTP id t9mr5210149ann.42.1328379166194; Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com
Received: by 10.146.136.20 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Feb 2012 10:12:46 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <E63757FF71CD8B382B3832E7@PST.JCK.COM>
References: <20120204001408.16716.94710.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CADBvc9_W9Jaca1TmV5QjyXupLVyLJh=6+334p-HM5pB=aKn15w@mail.gmail.com> <01OBKKTPYLIE00ZUIL@mauve.mrochek.com> <E63757FF71CD8B382B3832E7@PST.JCK.COM>
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 13:12:46 -0500
X-Google-Sender-Auth: HS4vxEI9qLDDEVt1i-PqkG7gJB8
Message-ID: <CAC4RtVAWkcLT8BjLafyZN+vLwNnrnc-xtQxUd24DZgGwdC3FDg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0016e6d3cf1a53fd6204b8276059"
Cc: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>, "apps-discuss@ietf.org" <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Requirement for "obsoletes" in Abstracts (was: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-appsawg-media-type-regs-00.txt)
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:12:47 -0000

>> A stupid rule in my opinion, but a rule nevertheless. I forgot
>> to add it but will do so in the next revision.
>
> Actually, as co-author, I want to strongly resist this change
> and therefore that putative rule (I claim that, independent of
> its substantive properties, it is invalid; see below).   I have
> three separate reasons, any one of which would, IMO, justify
> saying "no".

Contrary to John's rant (which, dont you know, I was shocked to see,
shocked, I tell you), the IESG does not treat this as a hard-and-fast rule,
but, in fact, more as a "strong recommendation".  ADs normally don't use
DISCUSS to comment on this, but non-blocking COMMENT.  And the PROTO
writeup can call it out and say that it's intended this way.

Either Alexey or I will shepherd this.  I, for one, am happy to call this
out in he writeup.

Barry, as chair