Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 21 March 2011 18:25 UTC
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:27:00 -0700
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From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
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Cc: dcrocker@bbiw.net, Apps Discuss <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
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On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Hannes Tschofenig > Not really. It allows people to innovate at full speed. There is no need to go through a 5 year standardization effort for a protocol extension when you can make it available to others easily (without even letting the user to download and instal a new application). > So, there is an old saying: "Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan". While I strongly agree that establishing where interoperability is needed should make for an interesting plenary discussion and is something every WG should consider, I think we have to be pretty careful in reading any paternity tests for the pace of innovation. There are several mutually reinforcing network effects here. The web provided the opportunity for many people to become publishers as well as consumers of network resources. That created a pool of developers and the opportunity for those who wanted to build tools for that pool of developers. That created a further explosion in interest in creating content and new innovations in the kind of content that could be created entirely within the web context (at one of my early employers, we created interactive content using web forms and Sun RPC, and the transition in technologies took a few years). While all of this content was moving onto the web, firewall and NAT technologies were getting widely deployed. One of the biggest risks was unvetted web-based content, but it could not be sequestered without enormous outcry, so those ports were left open. This pushed other kinds of traffic onto those ports, even when there was no user produced or consumable information involved. That increased the set of developers who understood network programming, but only from a web-centric view point. That, in turn, created a new body of content and protocols built on those tools. Network effects are very powerful, as we all know. The availability of one set of tools in the web environment (downloadable javascript) has clearly had an important part in that. But let's not confuse its role with the overall effect. It's particularly important that we not ascribe to those tools the overall pace of innovation. Developer community size, security models, and network topology restrictions have been as or more important. Any of the Daves in this conversation could create an innovative protocol to solve a problem without touching the web. It might take a good bit longer to deploy than one that did, but it's a set of other constraints (treatment of downloaded standalone applications vs. downloaded web applications, NATs, Firewalls, developer interest) that would slow its pace. That's important in part because new network effects are always possible. If we ascribe their results to one particular set of tools we may miss the generative possibilities of other tools. regards, Ted Hardie
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- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the en… Ted Hardie
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