Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)
Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com> Fri, 24 May 2013 17:14 UTC
Return-Path: <hallam@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B0621F967D for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.189
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.409, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M-Z65Hxp4aPP for <apps-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34E421F961C for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id x10so4948864lbi.35 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UqRt78CS8vrwVux8oDKsQAcc6+t6rJDPazWyHU8ERDA=; b=AEzXnsFG09FsoN8hTh845Mw03q4l0O6dsqcIrR2iNjYcakFv1G4mBNcpq1JMFP1Nsr heQKgjeCZi3CbWyFFKsAqSVtc1EiZIueVVSdPLu3kOi4ZOMIOkgqKCeQpBFnDfZEc4AI UULyxOYnjx6ugPZOoZPRjJ0hZjZo+EIevRhhhOdrcqd9NyeTAqqfKsPXFNpF1G+gg2fN fcaP1Das/tyaSG6YySaTRLblqaOK+eBL3i5MwZsejlwOWDDH7z2HLjTRJozbUtfI4w74 cpLIAHHdCwdnDJoNGdTGXUs+73+qomHUDgs434ejfGeTNJT/J2yjXLRGlLZY0tmxB76x bQAA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.152.116.36 with SMTP id jt4mr4857844lab.57.1369415668532; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.112.200.169 with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2013 10:14:28 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <A723FC6ECC552A4D8C8249D9E07425A70FC0DB40@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com>
References: <CAMm+LwiWYLBS+H6oKCfByUJVXL8bk293WuFY_M2fnBM2iuvxGA@mail.gmail.com> <A723FC6ECC552A4D8C8249D9E07425A70FC0DB40@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:14:28 -0400
Message-ID: <CAMm+Lwg6GN+eE59+eo8HkBkfaH+Y-V6=DqK-eyaucFycHd4emw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Phillip Hallam-Baker <hallam@gmail.com>
To: "Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)" <jhildebr@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11c35372790cd104dd79eec1"
Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, "apps-discuss@ietf.org Discuss" <apps-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 17:14:34 -0000
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 1:02 PM, Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr) < jhildebr@cisco.com> wrote: > > >My experience of coding ASN.1 DER (in C and javascript) leads me to > >reject any counted scheme as a non starter. > > I've read the whole thread, and didn't see adequate justification for that > worldview. Could you reiterate it, please? > If you have a counter scheme it is necessary to have the whole data structure in memory to serialize it. Many network applications require the use of an intermediary with a fixed buffer length. Now ASN.1 BER definite length encoding makes matters even worse by specifying lengths in octets rather than the number of entries in an object but the same objection applies. And DER encoding is just plain insane as the lengths of the lengths also varies. A very frequent use case for an encoding format is to take a stream of data of unknown size and package it in real time. For example I would like to be able to take a video stream and encrypt it using JSON encryption and then put a digital signature at the end. BSON does not do that quite like I would like but I can fake the same effect by using an array of Binary rather than one Binary chunk and the same for strings. With a counted representation I can't even fake it. So I won't be able to use CBOR for my applications which all involve cryptography. I can do what I need to do in JSON though. I see no evidence that counts help in the slightest for efficiency. Even DER encoding does not really help. Trying to use a packed encoding as an in-memory encoding is just a bad idea. -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/
- [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Representati… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… James M Snell
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… James M Snell
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… James M Snell
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Manger, James H
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Manger, James H
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Cridland
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Dave Crocker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Tony Finch
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… James M Snell
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Nico Williams
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [apps-discuss] Concise Binary Object Represen… Phillip Hallam-Baker