Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols

Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> Thu, 24 March 2011 15:34 UTC

Return-Path: <dave@cridland.net>
X-Original-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE3C928C128 for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:34:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.949
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.590, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_LWSHORTT=1.24]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11I1DCsXhjtR for <apps-discuss@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from peirce.dave.cridland.net (peirce.dave.cridland.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f09:882:2e0:81ff:fe29:d16a]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D71628C0F0 for <apps-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (peirce.dave.cridland.net [127.0.0.1]) by peirce.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8401F116808F; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:19 +0000 (GMT)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at peirce.dave.cridland.net
Received: from peirce.dave.cridland.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (peirce.dave.cridland.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ltULVRzyJu9t; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:17 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from puncture (puncture.dave.cridland.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f09:882:221:85ff:fe3f:1696]) by peirce.dave.cridland.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 01E36116808D; Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:17 +0000 (GMT)
References: <4D87612E.3090900@dcrocker.net> <4D881C04.2080406@qualcomm.com> <4D885482.2050006@ninebynine.org> <6266.1300784475.434865@puncture> <3F2B4909-DE99-4189-98BC-5E9DDCE3CAC5@gmx.net> <4126.1300977355.111049@puncture> <AANLkTikQsY0k4qVP9RFyjkSoTYusZ4Pxny6fgfoL6X0O@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikQsY0k4qVP9RFyjkSoTYusZ4Pxny6fgfoL6X0O@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <4126.1300980977.007329@puncture>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:36:17 +0000
From: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
To: Scott Brim <scott.brim@gmail.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>, Dave CROCKER <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss@ietf.org>, Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; delsp="yes"; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Subject: Re: [apps-discuss] IETF technical plenary: the end of application protocols
X-BeenThere: apps-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion of application-layer protocols <apps-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/apps-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:apps-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss>, <mailto:apps-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:34:48 -0000

On Thu Mar 24 14:43:01 2011, Scott Brim wrote:
> I believe it was in Munich, oh so many years ago, that Dave Clark  
> said
> "architect the inevitable".  Yes we preserve the model of  
> peer-to-peer
> symmetric communications.  We know it and other principles are
> fundamental necessities for future adaptability.  At the same time  
> we
> engineer all sorts of stuff that is just subsets, that does not  
> follow
> our fundamental principles completely, because it meets users' needs
> right now.

There is an immense distinction between pragmatically bending rules  
in the short term whilst clearly maintaining a single overriding  
architectural vision to aspire to, and throwing away years of  
architectural choices because a handful of very large near-monopolies  
would find it more convenient if they had total control over every  
aspect of the user's experience.

On the subject of the thriving ecosystem of third-party apps clinging  
on for dear life to these rumbling giants hoping to compete by  
pretending that an "API" under the sole control of a single entity  
is, somehow, equivalent to a viable open standard - as Hannes et al  
are trying to persuade us - there is some interesting reading which  
was kindly produced a couple of weeks ago:

http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk/browse_thread/thread/c82cd59c7a87216a?pli=1

Anyone present who doesn't choke at the "Twitter is a network" line  
should really wonder what they're doing here.

Dave.
-- 
Dave Cridland - mailto:dave@cridland.net - xmpp:dwd@dave.cridland.net
  - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/
  - http://dave.cridland.net/
Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade