Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful"
David Lang <david@lang.hm> Mon, 02 March 2015 23:15 UTC
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Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 15:14:58 -0800
From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
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To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
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Cc: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "aqm@ietf.org" <aqm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful"
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On Mon, 2 Mar 2015, Joe Touch wrote: > On 3/2/2015 1:40 AM, Brian Trammell wrote: > ... >> The real solution is to create a utility called "ping" that uses >> traffic that gets prioritized the same way as the traffic you care >> about instead of ICMP echo request/reply. Users don't care about >> the packets on the wire so much as they do that you're supposed to >> ping things. > > There are three separate problems: > > 1. a ping that doesn't use ICMP > there are dozens of these > > 2. needing a reflector > ping gets around this only because the reflector is widely > deployed (and integrated into most OSes) > > 3. using the same port as the traffic you care about > transport protocol is only one problem (ICMP being a "transport > protocol" by virtue of using the IP protocol number field) > > the other is differential prioritization based on port number > > there's no easy solution to that; > every service would need an integrated > ping reflector > > I suspect #3 is the ultimate killer of this idea. The service you are trying to contact acts as a reflector for TCP traffic. If you send a syn you will get back a syn-ack from the TCP stack of the receiving system. For UDP systems, it gets more interesting and service specific. But for TCP systems it works today. David Lang
- [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Dave Taht
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Andrew Mcgregor
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… David Lang
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Brian Trammell
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Dave Dolson
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Andrew Mcgregor
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] ping loss "cons… dpreed
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Jonathan Morton
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Brian Trammell
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… David Lang
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Wes Felter
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Dave Dolson
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Dave Taht
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" David Lang
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Joe Touch
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" David Lang
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Joe Touch
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" David Lang
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Andrew Mcgregor
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Wes Felter
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… Valdis.Kletnieks
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Wesley Eddy
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Dave Taht
- Re: [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful" Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] ping loss "cons… dpreed
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] ping loss "cons… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Curtis Villamizar
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… Dave Taht
- Re: [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful" Rich Brown
- Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered h… Matt Taggart