Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered harmful"

Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> Wed, 04 March 2015 08:14 UTC

Return-Path: <swmike@swm.pp.se>
X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87CE1A066C for <aqm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:14:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.661
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xs_wlxhsLUqb for <aqm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:14:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A46641A1A31 for <aqm@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 00:14:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3E792A3; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 09:14:03 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1425456843; bh=sxAe3JaIpILs4tHZ1ZggqqqAceocqOZlpT7B5YFB+eM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=a7jXCRJ3srIKBDIQGrFHqG7qZv/kFJWYq8Ka+/98aH1lXNTFP1vpTZHyXotRoP75g IufxLsaHW42Aqa3U/xy8EujNCOiZTvxw/qu1cqj4B5GOGIKg/fozYX3KF5Jd+LbxGm Ax+SJUI+e8AEN0WJ5tjThHshZVZhsBwJ81LslzTQ=
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AD2AA2; Wed, 4 Mar 2015 09:14:03 +0100 (CET)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 09:14:03 +0100 (CET)
From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
In-Reply-To: <34374.1425365125@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.02.1503040913060.20507@uplift.swm.pp.se>
References: <CAA93jw7KW=9PH002d3Via5ks6+mHScz5VDhpPVqLUGK2K=Mhew@mail.gmail.com> <7B3E53F5-2112-4A50-A777-B76F928CE8F2@trammell.ch> <alpine.DEB.2.02.1503021108270.20507@uplift.swm.pp.se> <34374.1425365125@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14)
Organization: People's Front Against WWW
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/aqm/GMLZ1oNS_uHIRqalZRtM_e1OGU4>
Cc: Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, "aqm@ietf.org" <aqm@ietf.org>, "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>, bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [aqm] [Cerowrt-devel] ping loss "considered harmful"
X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." <aqm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/aqm>, <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/aqm/>
List-Post: <mailto:aqm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm>, <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2015 08:14:10 -0000

On Tue, 3 Mar 2015, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:

> On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 11:17:33 +0100, Mikael Abrahamsson said:
>
>> We have a huge amount of information in our TCP stacks that either are
>> locked in there and not used properly to help users figure out what's
>> going on, and there is basically zero information flow between the
>> applications using TCP and the TCP stack itself. Each just tries to do its
>> best on its own layer.
>
> You might want to touch base with the 'web10g' crew, who are working on
> instrumenting the Linux network stack to expose more of the inner variables
> for analysis and tuning.
>
> http://web10g.org/

I know about them. I have been pitching my idea since 2008 or so. We need 
more people working on this.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se