Re: [aqm] Bufferbloat related censorship at Virgin Media

David Collier-Brown <> Mon, 02 March 2015 01:27 UTC

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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2015 20:27:25 -0500
From: David Collier-Brown <>
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Subject: Re: [aqm] Bufferbloat related censorship at Virgin Media
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Even from the point of view of a Canadian, Dave has been quite polite 
when dealing with the kind of
people who are so /*overweeningly*/ stupid that they think they're 

Regrettably, the best approach is to ask for them to be dismissed for 


On 03/01/2015 07:01 PM, Dave Taht wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Mel Beckman <> wrote:
>> Dave,
>> I appreciate all your work on buffer bloat. It looks like you have done quite a lot of selfless contribution. However, I don't think you're effectively communicating with the people who can change things.
>> After I read what you said, here is what I would have heard as a service provider:
>> "I am the smartest person in the room.
> I am pretty close to being the smartest person in the room. That said,
> people like van jacobson, eric dumazet, tom herbert, jim gettys, eric
> raymond, vint cerf, dave reed, fred baker, and many, many others,
> smarter than me, have also been banging this drum, politely, and
> rationally, to not much effect, for 4+ years now.
> google for any of those names and the word "bufferbloat".
>> You better listen to me, because if you don't there will be trouble. But you probably won't because you're too stupid. Your customers suffer because you are idiots. Listen to me! This issue is too important for me to be polite, or even coherent. If you can't figure out what I'm saying, do some research and figure it out! Plus, apologize to me! I demand it!"
> Oh, banning my ip for *3 links to sane benchmarks and fixes*,
> realllllly pushed me over the edge.
>> Bees, honey, vinegar, etc.
> I have been polite, constructive, and helpful, for four+ years. I have
> worked both in the background and foreground with many companies, to
> start hopefully, getting bufferbloat fixed across the entire edge of
> the internet. It hasn't worked fast enough for my liking, and the last
> batch of new products that claimed to fix it, didn't, and the market
> is now rife with genuine lies as to whether they did or not.
> So, this morning, I tried this. Sorry for the noise on these lists.
> Honestly! I totally agree with your assessment of my tone, btw! but I
> would rather like the cable industry in particular, to come clean,
> with schedules for deployable fixes.
> I am off to go fix wifi next, and I do hope that 2+ billion people in
> the world - if not the isps, maybe - would like wifi to get better
> also, and indeed, I spent the weekend constructively starting to
> implement some of the fixes I outlined at the last 802.11 meeting I
> attended. That part, on fixing wifi bufferbloat - a much harder
> problem than edge bufferbloat - , is a lot of fun! For some info on
> what we plan to do there, see:
> So I took a break from that, reared back, and got some stuff off my chest.

David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest           |                      -- Mark Twain