Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel-07: (with COMMENT)
Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> Thu, 13 April 2017 20:31 UTC
Return-Path: <gettysjim@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: aqm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053FA127077; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:31:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.398
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H5vqxkjsGIRs; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oi0-x241.google.com (mail-oi0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34943124B0A; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oi0-x241.google.com with SMTP id g204so14379237oib.2; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=8lHbWBBaFVN7Y8eFoi0VMC4CVU0DHc4Vs6g5+nOKueY=; b=TBB23SA87HA9mU7dzzX71v0Hq/U1J9xKVcMEIadLE3u10qjKpFLfNupnVfumevjRob VETHvqvSXRMEHOQo7HUkrr66FLrBE6wnxAGmy+zeLsQ06aiu26CSaC/2w+GIkjTp463N UGEkzgXfiJRI7uuLLfF7XDfaBlUnjxdrK1E/t2cDftzsrLB9WpKuRmpOnnCNqzONiYcJ d7nMFfJ3Xy1wWKsZ88XMgsPPBEdC+OM73DRf3Gts6wyJyJNL22J93Yvb2UzrvcyUfpDe 40WpDSW0ap3CivmTCe9B1fGQpydJvPdLG4m8DRw1IcRJWKLm/2JFW8lx3oqrbyCyolBh 45hw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8lHbWBBaFVN7Y8eFoi0VMC4CVU0DHc4Vs6g5+nOKueY=; b=TuSGLWGs4RYSgBGqoLTeu0ABupJGj6zsnq4i8JHxVPApo7/Fv4/koSWb3fOldL87Wm 5eVxtghHq6v0tdD1OohQy3yoKW7EZ0XIBUj2J3lczV+3ZoH+ErAnoLdbim73mc3LJBk4 ttMnHRV2KeNqY5Qb23OhszpQcETaby3iQlWfJZ3Zo06meMCaGGTb6qJKMs5PqBVYYQqE vx2q3SvWXJNAbFyhN4fpPfKr+5+LXl389VT7fb9+TVwcQ3tPFx83uzHmZUAcpxB/ZHqm lH0SVHEfGV/yeYjHR2Ghxcs4/4tu5g/JXlvvSCRwwJM6MvbiQhKTrdw+yKbcUp6SawmX 9c6A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4m9NE+c2IlelQoZrLLRAlw7r9kM4e8EvO0uyqep7ekVtgl2Ocs P1lw0KN532VCYVWMdVsQQkIszpoIxEcq
X-Received: by 10.157.34.16 with SMTP id o16mr2255540ota.266.1492114988594; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:23:08 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com
Received: by 10.74.142.129 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 13:23:08 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAGhGL2B56q_M0GZyL1Cvxr0j+f9bcnoAf_Z0Hhjnm37jBhiWgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <149206132767.15808.9810252342515150127.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <04F54465-4A6A-45A0-84A2-6F01A7B9D4C6@kuehlewind.net> <CAGhGL2B56q_M0GZyL1Cvxr0j+f9bcnoAf_Z0Hhjnm37jBhiWgg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:23:08 -0400
X-Google-Sender-Auth: KHSjBTMtBNTmTTrdUFJKCyEY9UQ
Message-ID: <CAGhGL2Ca=JCCkXNBx0daB-SrcOveJwh2ioQB+p=8+sVrv5wccg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
Cc: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>, aqm-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-aqm-codel@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "aqm@ietf.org" <aqm@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113acc78dbfca5054d121793"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/aqm/TSmfUoXf3qxTbbRHGcI7msl5pvw>
Subject: Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel-07: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: aqm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion list for active queue management and flow isolation." <aqm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/aqm>, <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/aqm/>
List-Post: <mailto:aqm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm>, <mailto:aqm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:31:08 -0000
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF) < > ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote: > >> Hi Alia, >> >> thanks for your feedback! Just on your first point regarding the status. >> The working group felt that there was not enough deployment to go directly >> to standards track and given AQM algorithm don’t need interoperability it >> was not really important for them to go to standards track right away. >> However, I leave it to the authors if they are able to add more text on how >> experimentation should be further performed. >> >> > This should be revisited. > > fq_codel is the default queue discipline on many/most Linux distributions > on the planet at this date. > Actually, I take that back. Codel is present in Linux, but essentially unused; it is there for experimentation (to make it easy for people to compare with fq_codel, PIE, etc, and to allow the fq_codel spec to reference it. So Experimental is appropriate for Codel, though explaining why would be good. Fq_codel is a different story: it's widely deployed, and there are multiple implementations (I believe the BSD folks finally got their act together). - Jim - Jim > > >> Mirja >> >> >> >> > Am 13.04.2017 um 07:28 schrieb Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>: >> > >> > Alia Atlas has entered the following ballot position for >> > draft-ietf-aqm-codel-07: Yes >> > >> > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> > introductory paragraph, however.) >> > >> > >> > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/stat >> ement/discuss-criteria.html >> > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> > >> > >> > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-aqm-codel/ >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > COMMENT: >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Thank you for a clear and very well written document. This was well >> > worth staying up >> > past 1am to read fully. I do have one primary comment and a couple >> minor >> > points. >> > >> > First, the document status is Experimental. While encouraging >> > experimentation, the >> > document doesn't really articulate what the concerns are or how >> > experimentation might >> > determine that this should be changed to standards track. While >> > regrettably I haven't >> > personally followed the AQM work, I might assume that some of the issues >> > to general >> > applicability might be tied to aspects around the challenges of applying >> > CoDel to a >> > system architecture built around WRED AQM and enqueue complexity rather >> > than dequeue >> > complexity. Having a paragraph that gave context in the introduction >> for >> > the questions >> > still to be explored would be helpful. >> > >> > a) In Sec 3.4 : "This property of CoDel has been exploited in >> > fq_codel [FQ-CODEL-ID], which hashes on the packet header fields to >> > determine a specific bin, or sub-queue, for each five-tuple flow," >> > For the general case of traffic, it would be better to focus on using a >> > microflow's >> > entropy information - whether that is derived from a 5-tuple, the IPv6 >> > flow label, >> > an MPLS Entropy label, etc. Tying this specifically to the 5-tuple is >> > not ideal. >> > Obviously I missed this for draft-ietf-aqm-fq-codel-06 - but even a >> > slight rephrasing >> > to "for each microflow, identifiable via five-tuple hash, src/dest + >> IPv6 >> > flow label, or >> > other entropy information" would encourage better understanding of >> > micro-flow identification. >> > Of course, this is just a comment - so do with it what you will. >> > >> > b) (Nit) In Sec 5.1: " We use this insight in the pseudo-code for CoDel >> > later in the draft." >> > The pseudo-code is actually earlier in the draft. Also >> > s/draft/document for publication. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > aqm mailing list >> > aqm@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aqm mailing list >> aqm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm >> > >
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Alia Atlas
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Jim Gettys
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Jim Gettys
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Dave Taht
- Re: [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- [aqm] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-aqm-codel-07:… Alia Atlas