Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list

Asmus Freytag <asmusf@ix.netcom.com> Wed, 13 May 2020 19:57 UTC

Return-Path: <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1628D3A08B6; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.996
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ix.netcom.com; domainkeys=pass (2048-bit key) header.from=asmusf@ix.netcom.com header.d=ix.netcom.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5TjVDPUIeZcj; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1580E3A08B5; Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ix.netcom.com; s=dk12062016; t=1589399826; bh=uzBj3VLMOwf+9U6SjnwLyjxOmrZxkb/1uVwR Ks3Uw1c=; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date: User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language: X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; b=oAJ53b4yKgy7FobUzVAP8nqwZHvwt6AED frSgLUV/rprK9il0hEmziLhI7prQvNMd08KYfZKFbRcUTG37yX5BqFFrs0P2K/4idk/ mcdpEn4HhXUwc9uPJooDCL/VnO0v804ktYzmTrWnjEayCzssHF4BjkkYUlyNVm2AjNN wn7Il997MDICkiOwnU1WvH3Wu8Zjuu4xSQX4DsT8MmunPbo+cSxdfoN47li+mNr05Wi 8TfcYnddFASr3t2Gx2joEyyiigdN0+LrJZfMMa+Bx+lGLub307Qg2ek2STs/veEwD1V TF37RW4oDlsrNqcFOV2H5UmvS33gioXcDSLUcnB9w==
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk12062016; d=ix.netcom.com; b=N9COvH3G/by8TZOVc4j4jIY+8LUBghxbFVwVIrZwnNg/4iWsBmsNPQiX0UnC9ehYxVuWETW3OWV9vcdk4D/pQzNUhp2VWy/KBB2P5+CQD/tCk/U4PPtZ3vKuvohKmPWXhS2HtEBifi0Od0Q1BTNMa5HWvLQq24B+BpFt0YH5X81JOmWRjF56myl/pRscqx/HH3/D9JJ2LLNNgC/T8ACCvxnUT2NT0qJcsK4Jxc6B9WTob65H48q99h9DlMeyH948IdvKYTmclakAP2cCa0WGTt1/0oHf/oeDxKytlErY2774/gGJ0NaC2pn9U6s0l7akctOXKrwiRsYCz6Uyr4L5vw==; h=Received:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent:MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Language:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP;
Received: from [75.172.116.31] (helo=[192.168.0.5]) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4) (envelope-from <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>) id 1jYxV1-000Bov-Si; Wed, 13 May 2020 15:57:04 -0400
To: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: art-ads@ietf.org, i18n-discuss@iab.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
References: <0114D1C5-49AE-46C8-9AD9-AF30C9D13E91@puck.nether.net> <000A12D4443F2DC47E555650@PSB> <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net>
From: Asmus Freytag <asmusf@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <68397cd8-f0cd-afbd-6a78-6249d639b637@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:57:03 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7D8E5CED-FAA5-423B-899C-EDD0D7ED970E@puck.nether.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B5EE4E308D4FC70346106D02"
Content-Language: en-US
X-ELNK-Trace: 464f085de979d7246f36dc87813833b26976a2cdabd2db7aafdb139b6d0e3014d2e2f2e18518ea2c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c
X-Originating-IP: 75.172.116.31
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/GWA8EQwbiXp4v8qkr87x6WkJsrk>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 19:57:08 -0000

It is one of the very few lists that I am on, because my focus is 
exclusively IDN/i18n.

Otherwise, John said it all.

A./


On 5/13/2020 11:20 AM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>
>> On May 13, 2020, at 2:13 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jared,
>>
>> Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org
>>
>> There have been multiple comments about that list, the
>> observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for
>> general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion
>> of the community that is interested in that work, a good place
>> to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the
>> occasional but important bursts of traffic on it.    AFAIK, the
>> first response from the IAB on the subject was this new
>> "shutdown in 7 days" announcement.
>>
>> Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further
>> indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a
>> fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work
>> needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work
>> is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that.  But
>> the result should not be shutting down the list but moving
>> responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on
>> the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives),
>> creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as
>> needed.
>>
>> regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on),
>>    Sisyphus
> (No hat)
>
> I understand your concern and will ask this list not be touched given your response.  I previously worked for a company that used non-roman characters as their native language, and the prevailing thoughts that English as the the native language and cultural norms of American English sometimes caused a clash in understanding.
>
> It would be good to hear this from others as well.  I will let you know that the list required manual intervention for my subscription to go through so I could post, so if the list is intended to be active, we should also look to understand why and correct that behavior if this is the best venue to discuss internationalization issues with the IAB as well as the broader community.
>
> (I’ll find the details of that and at least let you know in private).
>
> Thanks for your note!
>
> - jared
> _______________________________________________
> I18n-discuss mailing list
> I18n-discuss@iab.org
> https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss