Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Wed, 13 May 2020 18:37 UTC

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Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 20:37:17 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
Cc: Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net>, i18n-discuss@iab.org, art-ads@ietf.org, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20200513183717.GQ62020@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
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Subject: Re: [arch-d] [I18n-discuss] Closing the list
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Sorry for upleveling (broadening the discussion), but i am more worried about the
cleanup process in general than internationalization specifically.

IMHO: please do not continue cleaning up without making
sure there is sufficient tooling to easily search and
find historic information and knowing where to go to today
for a topic in question.

IMHO, we should improve mailarchive.ietf.org:

AFAIK, it does not have an index of mailing lists with
metadata such as description, whether it was a working group,
iab list, from when to when it existed, who was/is responsible, and
maybe most importantly for this discussion: Where to direct
todays discussion relating to the subject of the mailing list:
nowhere (IAB/IETF does not care anymore), or some other
suggested IETF mailing lists. This info would have to be
filled in when closing a mailing list.

Right now, subsets of this info exist in datatracker for
old working group mailing lists, but i don't think we have
a complete list of closed WGs (not sure), and for old
non-wg i am not sure if ietf.org/mailman is removing
closed non-wg mailing lists (i couldn't find an example),
in mailarchive itself you just got the endless list in
extended search, but without any metadata from all i can tell.

I would be happy to try to set up a tooling RFE to this
end (enhance mailarchive.ietf.org), but i am sure this wouldn't
go anywhere (given the amount of work needed) without some
leadership supporting the request.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 02:13:55PM -0400, John C Klensin wrote:
> Jared,
> 
> Re: i18n-discuss@iab.org
> 
> There have been multiple comments about that list, the
> observation that it is the _only_ IAB or IETF list available for
> general internationalization discussions (and, for the portion
> of the community that is interested in that work, a good place
> to copy announcements of i18n work and Last Calls), and the
> occasional but important bursts of traffic on it.    AFAIK, the
> first response from the IAB on the subject was this new
> "shutdown in 7 days" announcement.
> 
> Consistent with those comments, if the IAB wants to further
> indicate to the community that either it is uninterested in a
> fully international Internet and the technical and protocol work
> needed to get there or that it does not believe that such work
> is part of the architecture, you should definitely do that.  But
> the result should not be shutting down the list but moving
> responsibility for it to @ietf.org (noting that it is already on
> the IETF's Non-WG list and that the IETF holds the archives),
> creating whatever aliases, and moving over subscribers, as
> needed.
> 
> regards (and from an i18n perspective although with no hats on),
>    Sisyphus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 11:10 -0400 Jared Mauch
> <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Greetings!
> > 
> > The IAB is reviewing the mailing lists we are stewards for and
> > intend to close this list in 7 days.
> > 
> > If you have questions or concerns please direct them to
> > the architecture-discuss list.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > Jared Mauch
> > (on behalf of the IAB)
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > I18n-discuss mailing list
> > I18n-discuss@iab.org
> > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/i18n-discuss
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Architecture-discuss mailing list
> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss

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tte@cs.fau.de