Re: [arch-d] ETSI launches new group on Non-IP Networking addressing 5G new services

Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com> Thu, 09 April 2020 09:50 UTC

Return-Path: <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 234F93A103D for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 02:50:25 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VRrx-Y3MuFLH for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 02:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E32C3A103F for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 02:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id c15so11129920wro.11 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=SUxiTJzxbkEb5PSuX46WOnRaUPETcOyY3UiJyeBQIX8=; b=vUM8UezEqSE00VVHDYSswNjPCr0Pq4oXE3YwCyKPQxyGd6EvkvaYn80JQ6X/fxEJHd QDTVWq8gEaCjVNk6jtNkl9Xyw2H8fVfdgzDfvsU3mSsyGWGz645kSvoRSCOcBj0dmjem h1sa9ZnFNLoe517IzynZLND/fVqX5gs7X0sg1K9tg1RpsmCE8bDSR94HEIPKv+wFv+6y 1fR/Ae0NkRJq5jZHWYX238LZgpNgD/nx/EDRj66Q3R9vGLrCXwkTfmxNdwq3Kr/79X3u GCJYHcNLODq2Q1ArYb74fKLv+BB9IKqlIeBpJ1esvmYM24UcvfHwDh2RFs80CUmt0ve5 WV5A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=SUxiTJzxbkEb5PSuX46WOnRaUPETcOyY3UiJyeBQIX8=; b=geISg3XQKJs32kMCkBtWKiLhBVohn60Ehtk54Tq006C6WtU0JL525Sy+5kwHbEm20r s8rZtDANTgZjNu8KL91Q8oO70Quj6Lna4flx5eqwOWKq9RN9WPARvCNAlTDCw7jFnqDB oksMZZQi1tFHlWPJ/zLQkZSowgh1Yzvgg+aYfU6wmWwozBvDpTzSe8bPTxFiQNA0r5+y axOyQ+8qhSRRf386fKbwkR6Dbnxn/tde0cwW7ftmF9gX3kOF6fC/vjF51Ih2QMwi2VBu kE6y1Q8KBrKsowxy4j4bbshzpECyciEOR54NFos2dBCDOcDIeLEBSMWmqj9W6iW9CxYm 2syQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaID2UeJrDLA/HqkkQRyK2VbjRCltXDPXy3QK6wjOKprBTYFoul v/PmenhnYH1PmZzsJolOuyM=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI2tcBS04a4sRDi8i1ShEKA2eHMxfD1Zm/QKzluPI+d7TJVArV8VO5wS4aBUVJAa/LVmdxFbA==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:f4c6:: with SMTP id h6mr12912296wrp.267.1586425821809; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from broadband.bt.com ([2a00:23a8:4140:0:3d3c:abfc:9a8f:c39d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w18sm16754046wrn.55.2020.04.09.02.50.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <57789C39-10B6-42A2-A413-78ABACBE8686@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6B15F3EA-0B6C-450F-AECE-8DDE47B15554"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\))
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 10:50:18 +0100
In-Reply-To: <20200408230852.GS28965@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
References: <60a10451-5fbd-fcec-5389-7a72870dcc84@gmail.com> <6A3A4410-A889-46C7-8FD5-7C5AA85486A1@tzi.org> <20200408055530.GC28965@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <6.2.5.6.2.20200408102605.0ba41040@elandnews.com> <20200408195622.GK28965@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <6.2.5.6.2.20200408142709.0b957348@elandnews.com> <20200408230852.GS28965@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/MjweWoX2was3U1E9c-twSlPx2iI>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] ETSI launches new group on Non-IP Networking addressing 5G new services
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 09:50:25 -0000


> On 9 Apr 2020, at 00:08, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> 
> As said in the othre thread, i don't think in an industry as 
> mature as ours and as capital intensive, that there is
> a lot you can change short term and from a single player.

That depends on what you mean by short term and what the financial imperative is.

Think about the heady days when the Internet rolled out in several waves to the consumer world, and the rate at which modems changed and then switched to DSL then to xDSL, and from MPLS to Ethernet as the primary backhaul in many networks.

The key enabler this time is the move to edge service combined with the move to apps which hold their own network stack and tunnel to the edge service. That significantly reduces the scope of and hence barrier to change needed to introduce a new innovation.

So as with many things it comes down to imperative. Think of the rate of military technical evolution between 1939 and 1945 and how many impossible things were done because of the imperative. Think of the social change that has happened in the last few weeks. If the incentive is high enough long term can be a remarkably short time.

- Stewart