Re: [arch-d] I-D Action: draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 18 November 2019 01:29 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8725712002E for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aJ4gQEijeEfq for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com (mail-pg1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ACBA12080E for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id e17so1420879pgd.7 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:19 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=y/JAWWFOaiPW5Cs4glMWDgllqDrxYUu5U2Kj3GvzKdI=; b=pHw8EzMKDXjqea0+rl4C1MGz+SaGjkIAsYBIkv+sWxzHl3qjU/vL5+6Yrl4d68OEHI 2bDD5Bx1E/J8XsuU6YhUFT7n5/cP3s/pIOh9sFMdsxHJBs5frWonU71uoOFzYaCG3Aww 1wXf+G4xuaPjSRdmlm/uG52jzcIeRTW/r4uh7Ov5LURnIYKbChHb8M/pRVO1CR42nvIt Q6iXZoFQOmQQebN1u1Y9+ZTrCnnqKhJKP7lW35dM2+7Yf5OGP07gx3IDmaC2EJwyd8f2 gxKWLXZht7CqHO2Vv8vaQIWfyOVg6J2TpTB5vyLkku6xsUNs/rb4Dt8ti/abUxbcXdBs ommg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=y/JAWWFOaiPW5Cs4glMWDgllqDrxYUu5U2Kj3GvzKdI=; b=jp7/cgZn27qBqF35tGb/RCX+irgw89WhF1eQM7+tRUJMAuDgnw+VBiNOysJ2bPvltl Kq0m75GAczWBzgXHAchf9m9SJXRKe5BC2lgbcbCdVjirLBae3WkumZjfOVQtuBZ72iME 7w92FWO9YdmF15uxKUI1EsBXeYct0qKNHPU23WTRzjFlVrV9k+FCYq9VANr8A2LJ5Bqi t7itEr9WjnbYfvb6qEui/Q1A7kMhwB+JiZ++rL6dJ6r0KIloFtO75ipzkuewXbVk+BZm 2rpWIUy148H2mCTt3NlM2sTVHvU3KE1E0V2y7L5y0zDfcilWhle6sJGSzxI6joDNMaTF NziA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWsuaDX+ADQ/HzCFbMFg8NuwZvsseP8vhKhgzuLeQiVifsqqF9t OqZJyyGcsh1bpVyEFsjy03lUhWGf
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwb/2lSzMZZxEUarC1X5/iUnHPqkSvSMvX5WkSLM1t9IIdXmC1K021/iiAzQsYIHLQSCPum8w==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:dd51:: with SMTP id g17mr5202381pgj.388.1574040558298; Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [31.133.129.140] (dhcp-818c.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.129.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j7sm16323535pgl.38.2019.11.17.17.29.17 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:29:17 -0800 (PST)
To: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
References: <157403781839.6404.2709540591932973827@ietfa.amsl.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8a8af789-cf6a-eea1-b21c-d4c90fd9923e@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:29:17 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <157403781839.6404.2709540591932973827@ietfa.amsl.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/OYRTspA8tcUiJxYTlbs-V1klzwI>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] I-D Action: draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 01:29:22 -0000

Hi,

There's a lot of good stuff in this draft. Just one point caught my eye:

> 4.6.  Deprioritising Internal Needs
> 
>    There are a number of needs that are very visible to us as
>    specification authors, but should explicitly not be prioritised over
>    the needs of end users.
> 
>    These include: convenience for document editors, IETF process
>    matters, and "architectural purity".

I suggest making the last point: "architectural purity" for its own sake.
There are certainly many cases where the argument *for* architectural
purity is the principle of least astonishment, which directly benefits
the user experience.

Another point that occurs to me is whether the draft should say something
about user interface issues. Of course that topic is out of IETF scope,
but the protocol model may affect the UI in ways that have great
impact on the user.

Regards
   Brian Carpenter

On 18-Nov-19 13:43, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Internet Architecture Board IETF of the IETF.
> 
>         Title           : The Internet is for End Users
>         Author          : Mark Nottingham
> 	Filename        : draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
> 	Pages           : 11
> 	Date            : 2019-11-17
> 
> Abstract:
>    This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider
>    end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/
> 
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>