Re: [arch-d] Fwd: A Public Option for the Core

Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Sun, 16 August 2020 15:01 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364973A0CCF for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.317
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.317 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8bnRVWPNcwoX for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from server217-4.web-hosting.com (server217-4.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8E333A0CCE for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:01:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Sender: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender :Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=yRmnKUHyadF1CGmx4MdOvzBrwyO+IbQnM0wdg6jICwE=; b=cU6wTA7kVC6ZG3q1d+LEC2W+8f BtvBQ0ALBTmwz6n+4deOfOy7/YqaW/coKSiHD0eadQetN8UrKaLSghUqp7/hNXF0nA1rjof9HUuys hgSaI9JQXdkqePAx9QokmE97xZolHIlQ6HU226Cv9sOiFPouWa3kpNsDae2QqwEPqjP+C0gNwgxHk ME7zva3RNxerYTQOV0+SC1pf3gW87qxu15Cs1F/Aw6L49NJ+qQEfStyKqx1/UsuxG7C2MZQXWAgWG 64zbDW8gHBsz48Yafzv8wEakTX8hKrZpT84hYxqYcRNb1inDm4u9+85wJNDn+Zy7XqjhFCPxTvMGf 16Swt/qQ==;
Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:52559 helo=[192.168.1.6]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1k7K9v-003t3M-Td; Sun, 16 Aug 2020 11:01:24 -0400
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6CDF80B3-62A9-4BDD-A369-192CBBA7931A
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <754DE168-DF3B-4471-A145-39C6143E538A@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:01:19 -0700
Cc: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
Message-Id: <FB381338-A278-45B2-A40B-3A065E3A3ED1@strayalpha.com>
References: <754DE168-DF3B-4471-A145-39C6143E538A@comcast.net>
To: John Day <jeanjour@comcast.net>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (17G68)
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/PKGRHQ_w230iXlLF7tKeepD5lrA>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] Fwd: A Public Option for the Core
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 15:01:26 -0000

And the second is that service level implies connection. It only requires the network understands a label *I* control, rather than trying to infer one from the packet contents. 

Joe

> On Aug 16, 2020, at 3:19 AM, John Day <jeanjour@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: John Day <jeanjour@comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arch-d] A Public Option for the Core
>> Date: August 16, 2020 at 06:18:04 EDT
>> To: John Grant <j@ninetiles.com>
>> 
>> No, that is not true.  Your first mistake is that there is a control plane.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2020, at 06:02, John Grant <j@ninetiles.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 16/08/2020 02:48, Joseph Touch wrote:
>>>> *I* want apps to be able to get different service from the network and to pay differently for them if needed, but *never* to have the network infer or enforce that mapping.
>>> Of course, if you're going to do that -- have the application negotiate a particular kind of service rather than have the network "inspect" the packets and guess what service is needed -- you need a control plane protocol (let's call it "signalling") to do the negotiation, and you no longer have the connectionless/stateless paradigm on which IP is founded.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> John Grant
>>> Nine Tiles, Cambridge, England
>>> +44 1223 862599 and +44 1223 511455
>>> http://www.ninetiles.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Architecture-discuss mailing list
>>> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Architecture-discuss mailing list
> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss