Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle- considered harmful

Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu> Tue, 07 May 2019 22:15 UTC

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In-Reply-To: <3e4e7343-bd26-2252-742e-a78fd7a2dff2@cs.tcd.ie>
From: Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 18:15:22 -0400
Message-ID: <CACgrgBZF1fVsz1f_gv3KY+hVtGy8h0gF93f=Ok9aJOcjCCbsgg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "architecture-discuss@ietf.org" <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>, "iab@iab.org" <iab@iab.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/S-BQowJFfBcGi3MmaFbQcwBdP04>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle- considered harmful
Precedence: list

Arguing the alternative history is probably not all that productive and may
explain some of the disagreement in this discussion. (as in "Would protocol
X have taken off twenty years ago if all implementations had been strict or
if the spec had been less forgiving?") We do seem to have incurred a
technical debt - and maybe that's a related concept that should be
mentioned, as this is clearly not just a protocol or networking problem.

We now have better tools and a larger community of (more professional)
developers. Sometimes good advice that worked in 1990 is no longer as good
advice now.

Henning

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 5:45 PM Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
wrote:

>
> Hiya,
>
> Just to clarify where I'm coming from...
>
> On 07/05/2019 22:32, Christian Huitema wrote:
> > The alternative is what I see in "modern" specifications, like e.g. QUIC.
>
> ISTM taking the approach outlined in Martin's draft with QUIC
> is a good plan. I also know that this approach has improved
> TLS even though TLS didn't start out doing things this way.
> And I can totally buy it being valuable to at least consider
> taking this approach for any new work. So I do like the core
> idea on which the draft is based.
>
> I'm just not sure as to how generally it can be applied, nor
> if we can really say that "if only protocol X had taken this
> approach, things would have turned out better."
>
> S.
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> Architecture-discuss@ietf.org
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>

Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Barry Leiba
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Stephen Farrell
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Brian E Carpenter
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Andrew G. Malis
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Barry Leiba
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Warren Kumari
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Tony Li
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Stephen Farrell
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Adam Roach
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Salz, Rich
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joel M. Halpern
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Adam Roach
Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Christian Huitema
Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Stephen Farrell
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Matthew Kerwin
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Rich Kulawiec
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Christian Huitema
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Brian E Carpenter
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Mark Andrews
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Paul Wouters
Re: [arch-d] [IAB] deprecating Postel's principle… Randy Bush
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Carsten Bormann
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Jari Arkko
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… John C Klensin
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Phillip Hallam-Baker
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Bless, Roland (TM)
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Joe Touch
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henry S. Thompson
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… S Moonesamy
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Eliot Lear
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Carsten Bormann
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Eliot Lear
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Bob Briscoe
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henning Schulzrinne
Re: [arch-d] deprecating Postel's principle- cons… Henry S. Thompson